I wonder if my wand would work. or if it woudl just rub it off.    I remember scanning whiteboards in the 90s. it could print a copy on-site. 

One more thing about scanning with a smartphone app.

I just took a scan of my whiteboard.  The app found the edges of the board, squared it off, and reduced the color space to primary colors over a white background.

Try that with a flatbed.

Might be a little costly, but you can get ink over 13" so size isn't a problem ( that is what she said? ).   And all the better ones you can use a stylus, and most apps i have seen let you annotate. Not just 'a note taking app'    They all have front lights now ( not backlight, its different tech )  so its just like having a light over your book. Some are adjustable color as well.  

If you can borrow one from someone for a evening just to prop up beside you ( even if its small, you at least get the readability angle to review ) i think you will find you like it. If you were closer id let you use my 10" that i use for 'tech manuals'.  My 8. inch is great for novels, and daily use, but just too small for manuals. End up zooming all the time and its a pain.

Yes im a huge fan of them. even if in a way it pissed me off when i first realized what they were. I was trying to make something like that in the 80s...  Sort of did and made numbers and shapes on the glass... But was just a kid with some wacky idea, so that is where it stopped: A garage project. When they first came out commercially i thought they were a marketing gimmick, much like 'e-paper' is .. re-branding of LCD tech. But no.  Ink really is not.

Many do run android under the hood, so you have that list of apps to chose from.  Avoid the proprietary OS's since you want to do more than just read books and take 'regular' notes. Those work for me and most people that just want to read, but clearly not your use-case.  The uncle, just exports his sheets from his PC to PDF for when he is on stage.  Does not need to make notes and such on them but the PDF viewer would let him..

And agreed on scanning via phone.  Sounds painful.  I got a couple of those 'wand' scanners that has a removable feeder base. Easy to scan 9" wide or smaller ( like photos ) with the feeder, but if you need something bigger, pop it off the base and run the wand across.. And does not take up hardly any space, unlike a classic flatbed. Oh, and is battery powered .. 

Thu Oct 19 2023 09:27:54 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I wouldn't want to use my phone if I had a large volume of scanning to do.
It's too cumbersome for anything other than a couple of pages now and then.
But for an occasional scan, the right app (CamScanner) in good light on a table darker than the page being scanned, produces acceptable output.

On the music side, if I did have an electronic device I'd want it to be a "real" tablet with full size pages, and the app would have to accept hand drawn annotations. E-Ink would be pointless, as I already need a light to read the pages, so a self-illuminating screen is what I would want.

The better e-ink devices lets you take notes too.  Id not go with a tablet, hard to see during a show, and poor battery.  But ink would last weeks with daily use, and its almost the same as reading a piece of paper.  And you can store more with less bulk.  Id stay away from color however, at least the last couple of generations i have are not quite 'there' yet, in my opinion.  Not tried gen 3 yet however. 

My uncle is still a professional musician, and i finally got him to change, he said he wishes he had listened to me earlier...

Wed Oct 18 2023 18:38:15 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I like to have my music on a music stand and a pencil there to scribble performance notes on it. We do a lot of last minute changes. There is a "Music Stand" app that you can run on a tablet. But I don't have a tablet and I like to scribble notes.

*cough* e-ink *cough*

Wed Oct 18 2023 14:07:53 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

 I print sheet music to take to band practice with me.  

Of course.  It is a pawprint-er.

So far so good on this one.  According to its internal counter it only has 468 pages on it, which is not a lot.  It will get more than that now that it's here.  I print sheet music to take to band practice with me.  My wife and kids print all sorts of whatever.  But the "print this to keep it" days are over.

Oops, my bad.

Wed Oct 18 2023 13:05:07 EDT from LadySerenaKitty

Did you mean: second paw

 

Did you mean: second paw

Tue Oct 17 2023 07:06:51 EDT from Nurb432

I got it second hand for almost nothing, but burnt me and tainted my opinion about brother.

The last brother i had, ( admittedly a while ago ) only worked with something like windows 7.  And that was it.  I got it second hand for almost nothing, but burnt me and tainted my opinion about brother. 

I still have a 1018.    We hardly ever print.  Just the occasional return label, or documents that have to be *physically* signed and mailed back. ( idiots this is 2023.... )

Mon Oct 16 2023 23:24:46 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

DTP uses printers.

I finally retired my venerable 25 year old HP LaserJet 5, even though it still produces good quality copy and most of the time it doesn't jam. My wife brought home a Brother HL-L2350DW that was about to become surplus, so I replaced the HP in our home office.

Oh yea.  CUPS (Common Unix Printing System) brought IPP (Internet Print Protocol).  Then Apple acquired the CUPS project, it's a core component of all Apple's opurrating systems.  Combined with Generic PostScript and IPP's capability discovery, you have a small set of standards that work everywhere.

Oh, and a lot of meowdern printers still support LPD (Line Printing Daemon), so even older *nix platforms can use meowdern printers, like my SGI Indy sending print jobs to our HP LaserJet Pro MFP M277dw.

Mon Oct 16 2023 23:24:46 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

DTP uses printers.

I finally retired my venerable 25 year old HP LaserJet 5, even though it still produces good quality copy and most of the time it doesn't jam. My wife brought home a Brother HL-L2350DW that was about to become surplus, so I replaced the HP in our home office.

And it made me realize just how out-of-touch I am with technology that doesn't go into a data center.

* Driverless printing? WTF? When did THAT happen? The industry actually got together on a couple of standardized raster formats and discovery protocols and now you can print without installing drivers? All I did was tell this printer about my WiFi network and then when I brought up the "printer settings" window in Linux, it just said "oh, there's a printer here, is this the one you want?" Yes, I answered, expecting to do the dance. "Ok it's done!"
Geez.

(Windoze was a bit more fussy, but it found the printer eventually, and needed no driver either.)

The *appearance* of fairness. Isn't that how Vegas always rolled?

Wed Sep 06 2023 10:45:50 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I noticed that the slots and poker machines are all basically using
curved LCDs in Portrait mode, now. They're just really big Samsung
CHG-90 curved gaming LCDs. 

I noticed that when I was in Las Vegas last year. It seems ... less "real".
Like you're not really interacting with a real slot machine, you're just "on a computer".

And yes, I know that even with the mechanical machines, the outcome of each play has been selected by a computer the moment you pull the handle, for a long time now. But at least it had the feel of a real machine.

I guess large LCDs are changing things quite a bit. 

I noticed that the slots and poker machines are all basically using curved LCDs in Portrait mode, now. They're just really big Samsung CHG-90 curved gaming LCDs. 

Mon Apr 26 2021 10:51:00 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I've given the example before - until the mid 90s local grocers were
hand inking their "Weekly specials" on butcher paper. Now, they use
DTP and large format printers to print out slick, high gloss specials

That's so OLD FASHIONED.

Large format printers for in-store display copy was a thing for a very brief period of time.

Now they just put big screens up behind the counters. So there's another place where hardcopy is dead.

I'm starting to see tiny e-ink displays sticking out of shelves with prices on them. Mostly sale items..  Not a lot, but its starting. 

Kohls has been using LCD on their shelves for a while now . Ahead of the curve.

I imagine a lot of it was just a job, but that the really good ones cracked them up, too. 

Sat Apr 17 2021 08:31:01 EDT from zooer

When they were creating those joke names do you think it was one guy or a group of people?  Did they laugh at their creations or was it mundane? 

I would suspect it was a team. I got many inside bubblegum cards in the 70s

Sat Apr 17 2021 08:31:01 EDT from zooer

When they were creating those joke names do you think it was one guy or a group of people?  Did they laugh at their creations or was it mundane? 

When they were creating those joke names do you think it was one guy or a group of people?  Did they laugh at their creations or was it mundane? 

These eventually morphed into Garbage Pail Kids. 

But yest, I loved these. Very "MAD" magazine. 

Fri Apr 16 2021 19:11:44 EDT from zooer

Do you remember all those product joke stickers from the 70s/80s?

 

 

IMAGE LINK
 

I used to have a couple of notebooks full of them.  

Do you remember all those product joke stickers from the 70s/80s?

IMAGE LINK
 

They dont exist around here anymore. its all FedEx branded now.

We had a music store back in the 90s. They sold T-shirts too ( go figure, i know.. no surprise there )   One hanging up on the wall, looked just like the kinko 24 hour logo thing   but instead it was kinkys, open 24 hours.

Simple,. but funny,.

Fri Apr 16 2021 10:58:11 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Kinkos can help. 

Fri Apr 16 2021 08:35:29 EDT from LoanShark

And it isn't as if you *can't* print it if you want a hard copy. It

just isn't the primary medium anymore.

Well, I can't print at the moment. Can u help?

 

Kinkos can help. 

Fri Apr 16 2021 08:35:29 EDT from LoanShark

And it isn't as if you *can't* print it if you want a hard copy. It

just isn't the primary medium anymore.

Well, I can't print at the moment. Can u help?

Also, the things we print have EXPANDED. It just isn't documents anymore. People design and print cards, books, flyers, photography, and physical objects now - and there are more people with digital devices than ever before in history. 


Handcrafted art is probably more affected by digital creation and print than print is by web based, digital only documentation. I think I've given the example before - until the mid 90s local grocers were hand inking their "Weekly specials" on butcher paper. Now, they use DTP and large format printers to print out slick, high gloss specials notices. 

Yet that has now become one of the biggest complaints about our software after it was upgraded.   Printing vanished.  "how can i do my job"  Um, its there, on the screen like it was before..   " whaaaaa"  "ok fine, we built a workaround and asked the vendor to restore that feature someday.  go away"

People still like their paper.

I may have mentioned this before, but back in late 80s i worked with a online reporting vendor for the mainframe, so we could reduce printing costs of reports at the plant, that get tossed the next morning ( 200k a month ... if you included everything, from the printer, to supplies, to the dedicated team and their electric carts to deliver it all, and disposal costs of the mountains of paper once they collected it back ) .   2 hour presentation with the big wigs, even cost analysis stuff so it wasn't just a 'pretty demo in a vacuum' but had hard numbers.   "yes, that really looks great, and we thank you for doing this for us, but we like our paper"  and everyone left.  I learned something that day :)

Thu Apr 15 2021 13:54:52 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

It's true. Look at any of your typical productivity software that was developed during the PC Era. Everything centered around creating documents that were meant to be printed. In the Post-PC Era, documents are now created to be read online. It's about creating content that can be read on any device, and can be interacted with.

And it isn't as if you *can't* print it if you want a hard copy. It just isn't the primary medium anymore.

Unfortunate, but i imagine mostly true. "Print" is an afterthought. 

Sat Mar 27 2021 12:35:02 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I guess DTP is now a subset of Vintage Computing. No one designs for dead trees anymore :_)

Not sure how we got so far off track - but it was probably my fault. :) 

Sat Mar 27 2021 12:35:02 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I guess DTP is now a subset of Vintage Computing. No one designs for dead trees anymore :_)

I had a z80 in my ][GS ( transferred it over when i upgraded from a ][+ )

Sat Jan 30 2021 20:12:30 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

One of its successors, the 65816, was used in the Super Nintendo and the Apple IIgs, among other places.  It isn't their fault that the whole world got its panties soaked over the IBM PC.

One of its successors, the 65816, was used in the Super Nintendo and the Apple IIgs, among other places.  It isn't their fault that the whole world got its panties soaked over the IBM PC.

And,the MOS 6502 drove nearly everything from that era and drove the 8 bit home electronics revolution.

The Atari 2600 to the NES were all MOS 6502 or variations. It is amazing that they managed to drive themselves into the ground when they were selling the chip that was the heart of *everyone's* machine.

Ya, without him there would have been no commodore as they would not have made the transition from calculators and stuff.. He brought Atari back from the dead as a competitor too. Pushed tech a bit further than it was ready to be pushed.  Brought computers to the masses, ( even more than Clive did in the UK i think, but it would be a close competition ) and in effect he built the foundation of the "dock", but missed the "big boat" as it sailed past him.

Never got to meet him but i think i would have liked him ( unlike many of the others of his day )

Tue Dec 29 2020 20:39:43 EST from ParanoidDelusions

He perplexes me. He is absolutely the Anti-Moore, the Anti-Gates, the Anti-Jobs. He was the antithesis of everything they were. 

But possibly the most influential to the early success of home computing of all of them. 

 

He perplexes me. He is absolutely the Anti-Moore, the Anti-Gates, the Anti-Jobs. He was the antithesis of everything they were. 

But possibly the most influential to the early success of home computing of all of them. 

Yes. Jack i have respect for. His sons, not in the slightest. 

The Tramiel's were an interesting impact on early technology, without a doubt. The story of Commodore is really the story of Jack - and the Amiga and ST are both legacies on his influence in both Atari and Commodore. 

I think there was a LOT going on at that time. Time Warner caused huge damage to Atari as a brand... as soon as bean-counters got involved in the companies and big corporations started seeing the promise of HUGE profits - things started to go sideways. The fallout from the glut of crapware for the Atari 2600 even had its impact. Customers became far more skeptical between say, 1979 and 1984 about consoles and PCs, and by the late 80s and early 90s, were actually growing very sophisticated in their personal computing decisions. 

A lot of it was the inevitable shakeout of some of the pioneers in any new industry, and the establishment of dominant marquees that manage to get the majority of control of the market. 
Business growth is one of those things where the co

Tue Dec 29 2020 07:42:03 EST from Nurb432

I place the blame of Atari's downfall on the Tramiel brothers. 

Oh, and no i'm not bitter.. not at all..   :) 

I place the blame of Atari's downfall on the Tramiel brothers. They ran it into the ground due to mis-management and inability to market. They were NOT their father, and were incompetent. I still feel Atari had some of the best tech around at the time ( ever touched a falcon? or an ATW? ) but when you dont tell people about your products, ( the jaguar was a marketing disaster, and how many people other than insiders even knew about the portfolio or lynx? ) or cancel upcoming products, like the ST Book, after you spend the research money.. how can you survive as a tech company?

Of course Nintendo pulling their shenanigans in stores that pushed out the profitable consoles didnt help either, but it wasn't the final blow, it was management ( as it often is )

Mon Dec 28 2020 23:22:34 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Both companies were grossly mismanaged and had too much infighting and no unified vision by the end too. 

Atari was honestly falling behind from the start - and the MegaST and later lines never got a real good niche market beyond the music industry. I'm not sure of the details of the specific technical liabilities - but all you have to do is play a side-scrolling port like Great Giana sisters - and understand this was a time when side-scrollers were dominant, to understand why Atari was going to lose the war first. 

Amiga started to react and develop competitive technology, but it was too late - and they lost the advantage of being the *affordable* alternative as SVGA and audio cards allowed the PC to replace the Amiga as the premier gaming platform desired by gaming-geeks everywhere. When I saw Wing Commander II in SVGA with digital audio cut-scenes - I knew the Amiga was dead in the water. 

Both companies were grossly mismanaged and had too much infighting and no unified vision by the end too. 

There were tons of other factors too. Marketing and accessibility were huge dr

Mon Dec 28 2020 19:03:08 EST from Nurb432

yes. and as we fought among our selves and not watching, IBM and Microsoft blew past us and took the market..

 

 

 

 

yes. and as we fought among our selves and not watching, IBM and Microsoft blew past us and took the market..

I was ( still am i guess ) an Atari guy.

Apparently, you can still buy Calamus.. never dreamed.

Sun Dec 27 2020 18:57:05 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Do you know that the ST/Amiga rivalry still goes on today? 

As someone who owned a 520ST, a 1040ST and an Amiga 2000 at the same time, I've always had a fondness for both, for different reasons. 

I generally lean toward the Amiga side of the fence - but there are things the ST is absolutely superior at... 

And... the ST had the first real multi-node FPS ever - MidiMaze. 

 

Sat Dec 26 2020 19:40:59 EST from Nurb432

Calamus for the win!

( and a monochrome monitor on that ST )

 

"Print Shop was good enough for my grandpappy"

Do you know that the ST/Amiga rivalry still goes on today? 

As someone who owned a 520ST, a 1040ST and an Amiga 2000 at the same time, I've always had a fondness for both, for different reasons. 

I generally lean toward the Amiga side of the fence - but there are things the ST is absolutely superior at... 

And... the ST had the first real multi-node FPS ever - MidiMaze. 

Sat Dec 26 2020 19:40:59 EST from Nurb432

Calamus for the win!

( and a monochrome monitor on that ST )

Calamus for the win!

( and a monochrome monitor on that ST )

Ah, that is what I thought, but was afraid to ask.  Desk top publishing.  I know something about it, but could never afford it (Sinclair / Timex / Apple I - et all).  Fired in to programming before all that took off.  I do know a teacher that still longs for a free upgrade to Quark for himself and his collaborator (both Mac users), so if anybody has any ideas, feel free to fling forth.

I don't think he would do Scribus, but I did not put that forth yet.  Older than me, so might not like the learning curve involved.

I liked PageMaker!  It was great ... until Adobe bought the product and subsequently drove it into the ground.

But nothing beat The Print Shop!  (Which, apparently, is still around.  Weird.)

There was a brief period during which lots of people had computers, but Al Gore had not yet invented the Internet.  During this in-between moment in history, people composed newsletters and such on their own computers, then printed them onto slices of dead tree and mailed them out to people, who allegedly read them.   This was called "Desk Top Publishing" and apparently we had a room to talk about it at some point.  Since it is a directory room, it was immune to THE DREADED AUTO-PURGER (which is not nearly as aggressive as he used to be).

Digital Toilet Paper of course.

FIRST!  

I have never wanted to do that so I just did.  I couldn't let this room die, it means so much to the kids in the orphanarium.