Ancient Computing

Message #2099558738

Fri, 27 Mar 2026 07:22:13 -0000

This was exactly the problem. I upgraded from the A2600 to the Vic 20 - and thought it sucked. It had a 20 col screen - not even 40 col, on your TV, about 5k of usable RAM - and bad I/O - but as an adult, I look back at the games and realize they were WAY better than the Atari 2600 titles - but availability and accessibility made the 2600 the "better" gaming system. The Vic 20 was a way better gaming platform - especially with RAM upgrades - but it was just very difficult to get titles for it back then. Now, I want one, and have very good versions of it via FPGA via MiSTer.

Wed Mar 25 2026 22:34:14 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

And that's the problem, TI tried to block the publication of third party titles, and in response, software publishers preferred to ignore the platform completely instead of publish through TI. Funny thing, certain platforms (Nintendo, Apple) get away with that today, but 40+ years ago there were no app stores to make it easy.

So if you had a TI-99/4A you probably had Car Wars, TI Invaders, Parsec, Tombstone City, and maybe a few others. Parsec was the big thrill. Everything else was more playable on the Atari 2600 you probably also owned at the time.

After I got bored I usually headed back to the CP/M machine we had in the house at the time.

Message #2099558597

Wed, 25 Mar 2026 22:34:14 -0000

And that's the problem, TI tried to block the publication of third party titles, and in response, software publishers preferred to ignore the platform completely instead of publish through TI. Funny thing, certain platforms (Nintendo, Apple) get away with that today, but 40+ years ago there were no app stores to make it easy. So if you had a TI-99/4A you probably had Car Wars, TI Invaders, Parsec, Tombstone City, and maybe a few others. Parsec was the big thrill. Everything else was more playable on the Atari 2600 you probably also owned at the time. After I got bored I usually headed back to the CP/M machine we had in the house at the time.

Message #2099558089

Tue, 17 Mar 2026 17:57:51 -0000

>OMG, the TI-99/4A was a WACKO machine. The TMS9900 CPU was a real gem, My childhood friend had one of these when we were about 5 years old. First and last time I ever saw one of them. He might have had a few games for it, I don't remember what we did with it as my memories off that thing are all conflated with playing Empire Strikes Back on the adjacent Atari... but it was a weird machine...

Message #2099557907

Sat, 14 Mar 2026 06:17:32 -0000

I just like "Hunt The Wumpus".

It is kind of like INTV AD&D - only more primitive. It is actually a blend of that and Minesweeper, I guess. You have to figure out what room the Wumpus is in - which is basically Minesweeper with 1 flag, in a maze like INTV AD&D.

This made me remember I had a dream where I was IN the Atari 2600 Adventure game recently. Realized the dragons aren't limited by walls because they can FLY. Woke up going, "epiphany".
45 years later.

Tue Mar 10 2026 18:14:48 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

OMG, the TI-99/4A was a WACKO machine. The TMS9900 CPU was a real gem, it could run a much bigger machine if you let it just sit on the bus and run at full speed. You could say it was a 16-bit CPU forced to breathe through a soda straw. Between the 8-bit DRAM, the 8-bit system bus, the bank switched ROMs and RAMs, video RAM being accessible only through two internal I/O ports instead of memory map ... it was the brain of a very capable multiuser machine trapped inside a toy computer.

TI-99/4A

Wed, 11 Mar 2026 19:17:18 -0000

>OMG, the TI-99/4A was a WACKO machine. The TMS9900 CPU was a real gem, Not a machine I have much experience with. The only one I ever used was in the early 90s at a friend's house. It was a souped-up system, hard drive and special video adapter. It was the family machine of a girl I was trying to date, but she has no interest. Both of us 15 I think. She was only interested in 20-somethings. My vintage machine of choice is the TRS-80 Model III. My Dad bought one when I was 6, identical to the machines he used at work. Cassette only at first, then a single double density floppy and 48k RAM. Not a bad platform. I learned BASIC, Z80 assembly, and FORTRAN on that box. Tandy's FORTRAN wasn't F77 compliant, especially with regard to string handling, so I mostly reverted to assembly. Lots of good emulators around for the Z80 now.

Message #2099557736

Tue, 10 Mar 2026 18:14:48 -0000

OMG, the TI-99/4A was a WACKO machine. The TMS9900 CPU was a real gem, it could run a much bigger machine if you let it just sit on the bus and run at full speed. You could say it was a 16-bit CPU forced to breathe through a soda straw. Between the 8-bit DRAM, the 8-bit system bus, the bank switched ROMs and RAMs, video RAM being accessible only through two internal I/O ports instead of memory map ... it was the brain of a very capable multiuser machine trapped inside a toy computer.

Message #2099556872

Sun, 22 Feb 2026 07:45:48 -0000

It can do a CP/M terminal - an arcade Space Invaders core - a bunch of other stuff...

Start here: I guess:

https://github.com/fdivitto/FabGL

This Italian guy wrote all the - I don't even know what to call them - cores is what we would say in FPGA - but this is SoC emulation running in bare minimum hardware.

So, - it seems like it is non-supported now - the non-free distro that was hard coded is broken - so you can't download additional games that way. The URL based download method - I haven't gotten to work... there is no joy port - and I don't see a way to connect a BT controller in this routine - so it is kind of a dead end - other than a proof of concept. It needs a PS/2 KB and mouse - so if you got rid of all of those - double or 3x the price to buy those off Amazon at about $15 each - and then it isn't such a good deal.

It is neat concept - though. I got it up, and running - and it is a Vic 20 with full Vic20 basic - you could program on

Mon Feb 16 2026 23:50:36 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

That's pretty cool, actually.

The fact that an off-the-shelf microcontroller can bit-bang a VGA port and still have enough power left over to emulate a 1980s computer at full speed is impressive.

What else can it do? I've got one monitor left with a VGA port. If I could turn it into a display for a microcontroller project that could be neat.

Message #2099556134

Mon, 16 Feb 2026 23:50:36 -0000

That's pretty cool, actually.

The fact that an off-the-shelf microcontroller can bit-bang a VGA port and still have enough power left over to emulate a 1980s computer at full speed is impressive.

What else can it do? I've got one monitor left with a VGA port. If I could turn it into a display for a microcontroller project that could be neat.

Message #2099555863

Sat, 14 Feb 2026 06:32:53 -0000

So, a holy grail of retro-gaming emulation is the Vic 20. It had 16k of total memory, reduced by basic, with a 20 column screen displayed most often on a TV. It was the precursor of the C64. I had one - and I thought it sucked - but it was really WAY better than my Atari 2600 - just- difficult and not as many titles and they were hard to find. It is the bastard child of retro-emulation - because of memory expansion and ripping carts to .rom images means you have to know hardcore memory address locations and how to make your Vic 20 emulator act like one with an 8k and 16k memory upgrade. Right? It isn't easy.

But I bought this thing - called an ESP32 VGA - it is an Audrino board. I'd never messed with that - but it is basically a SoC eprom you can burn a program to. I KINDA get that. And one of them is a Vic 20. This one, the ESP32 VGA has a VGA port and PS/2 keyboard/mouse ports, an SD, USB power - and BT and WiFi on the board - for $15.

And it is a f'kin Vic 20. Which shouldn't

Wed Feb 11 2026 22:41:57 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

We certainly are balanced on the edge of a singularity unlike
any mankind has ever balanced on before.

"Retro" anything, is popular for just that reason. People appreciate the raw, unpolished authenticity.

Quark on DS9 liked to impress important guests with food that was "all fresh, not replicated."

Pockets of THE REAL will be attractive forever. For just this reason.

Message #2099555262

Sun, 08 Feb 2026 05:53:50 -0000

I had to sit and think about this for a moment. It isn't just, "doesn't work like the Windoze program I want to replace."

I'm going to use Photoshop as an example. It is the absolutely preferred photo-editing software for professionals. Likewise Illustrator is the ultimate vector graphics program. I'm trained in both - I understand why they're preferred by graphic designers. They're rock solid, they're easy to use, they're super well supported. There is this huge Adobe corporate machine that wants to encourage you to use them. Because they're so dominant, they only want this subscription model and their model says, "you need to make a lot of money using our apps so that you can afford the monthly subscription. If you can't monetize it, you should go somewhere else."

Bluntly. Like Cisco. If you're not profiting from their platform - they don't want you. You can't be a casual user. You can be a student, or a pro - there is no casual use model.

So, the next step down is

Fri Feb 06 2026 04:03:10 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Please do not conflate "bad" with "doesn't work and look exactly like the Windoze program I want to replace".

Message #2099555054

Fri, 06 Feb 2026 04:03:10 -0000

Please do not conflate "bad" with "doesn't work and look exactly like the Windoze program I want to replace".

Message #2099554371

Sat, 31 Jan 2026 05:04:52 -0000

I think so. GIMP is a terrible photoshop program. The Office alternatives like Libre Office and Open Office are shit. Blender is super powerful, but in some ways so raw and unrefined.

Linux is like the FIRST album from Metallica or Motley Crue... raw, hard, unpolished, unfinished, full of potential - but not very consumer accessible.

I don't know that it is "2nd rate" or enshittification - necessarily. Maybe it is BETTER. But it isn't as ACCESIBLE - because it requires way more THINKING to get the most out of it. Maybe if you think HARDER - if you're smarter - it actually gives you way MORE for way LESS sacrifice, less cost. Adobe is ridiculous with their pricing models, their subscription models - their greed. But it is EASIER and more stable for people who don't want to screw around with fighting to learn it and get it to work right than anything Linux.

So... no, I guess not where you went with it, exactly. I'm not saying it is 2nd rate or enshittification. It is d

Wed Jan 28 2026 03:20:08 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Linux guys tend to make a lot of compromises without realizing they're letting their boundaries be pushed, in my opinion.

I've read through this comment a few times and I'm having trouble understanding what you mean by it.

Are you suggesting that we tolerate second-rate software, or that we're tolerating the enshittification of software, or something else?

Message #2099553987

Wed, 28 Jan 2026 03:20:08 -0000

Linux guys tend to make a lot of compromises without realizing they're letting their boundaries be pushed, in my opinion.

I've read through this comment a few times and I'm having trouble understanding what you mean by it.

Are you suggesting that we tolerate second-rate software, or that we're tolerating the enshittification of software, or something else?

Message #2099553810

Mon, 26 Jan 2026 18:32:51 -0000

LXDE is pretty lightweight and easy on the eyes..

Message #2099553591

Sat, 24 Jan 2026 06:13:51 -0000

Linux guys tend to make a lot of compromises without realizing they're letting their boundaries be pushed, in my opinion.

But it is because Linux pushes a lot of limits that mainstream OSes simply don't allow, I guess.

Message #2099553340

Wed, 21 Jan 2026 22:11:28 -0000

I'm now rocking CDE style window decorations and IBM Plex fonts on most of my machines. It's like a weird mix of Solaris and OS/2. And it's awesome.

It's funny, I didn't realize how much I missed having visible draggable edges on my windows until I could finally see them again.

For reference: this is the "Commonality" theme available for KDE, plus a switch back to some of the standard window colors, and the fonts set to IBM Plex [Mono|Sans].

My gosh, the more they gussy up the desktop the more I love the 1990s style.

Message #2099552146

Sat, 10 Jan 2026 07:04:13 -0000

I thought about it some more... the SAGA open core for MiSTer because the Minimig is "glacial", and it cut through the whisky fog and I get it. Yes - MiniMig is only really useful for "classic" 68k Amiga emulation - and the FPGA core in MiSTer is probably capable of a lot more. It tops out at a 68020 at 100 Mhz, I think... which is still far slower than a 68030/30 in MIPS, right? That is what you were getting out, in "less smart than you are," terms... because... I'm a bright guy with technology compared to average users - but I'm a mouth-breather compared to people who are actually FLUENT in technology.

People have also talked about using the ARM core on MiSTer as a PiStorm to give Minimig on MiSTer a Vampire type of performance boost - but that didn't ever pan out for some reason.

I'm happy with the MiSTer being a very rock solid Amiga alternative running native code on bare metal (even if it is FPGA bare metal with some ARM support in the background).

It beats Win

Message #2099552145

Sat, 10 Jan 2026 06:50:04 -0000

But also - Gunner is a dick. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt for just being German - but I think even other people on the Apollo team think he is a dick.

Commodore seems to be a dick magnet, though. The MiSTer guy - Sergei - is kind of a dick, too.

And - there are a lot of Retro-guys that are dicks. I suppose if you ask around enough - you would find a large group supporting the idea that I myself, an somewhat of a dick.

I think we're all autistic. 8 bit PCs attracted undiagnosed people in the 80s who didn't quite fit in with normal people. But I suppose that is a topic for another room. ;)

Message #2099552144

Sat, 10 Jan 2026 06:46:33 -0000

I'll be honest, you lost me right about here - way beyond my pay grade.

I'm way more "intuitive". Ask Ig about how I approached getting my handle on Linux and Citadel... I kind of slam dance my way into technical solutions... I just thrash and flail until things start working... and honestly - it is pretty effective for me - at the end I was pretty good at both Debian *nix, Proxmox and Citadel-UX - but it wasn't in the methodical way you cats all do it. I'm a systems guy, and not a dev guy, by any fair measure - and I use a hammer for every problem, never a scalpel. This undisciplined "break stuff until it works," ethos got me pretty far in my IT career - but was obviously not as sustainable as knowing the kind of things you guys know.

But - from my perspective - whatever is going on with Minimig on FPGA (MiST or MiSTer are my primary experience) or V4 feels WAY more authentic than any software based emulation built on UAE. I've got 3 accelerated A500 systems, an accelerated A600

Fri Jan 09 2026 05:05:26 UTC from SamuraiCrow

I have a MiSTer Pi but haven't used it much. I wanted to make an open-source knockoff of the 68080 and SAGA cores. The MiniMig core on the MiSTer series platforms is glacial and under-developed in some ways and based more directly on running the same software as WinUAE and related emulation. For example, the MiniMig core has an integrated Defina Flipper or equivalent in the core so that any standardized APIs like AHI and P96 drivers (using the UAE_gfx driver, IIRC) can just work with existing software.

Message #2099552014

Fri, 09 Jan 2026 05:05:26 -0000

Sat Nov 29 2025 06:24:24 UTC from ParanoidDelusions

An Apollo V4 standalone Amiga "clone" - for lack of a better word - it is an FPGA Amiga built on a hypothetical 68080 that is 68040 instruction backward compatible - dispensing with the 68060 which was evidently difficult to work with and broke a lot of backwards instructional compatibility. It is running iBrowse - in this case, searching Soutcast.com for streaming radio stations in .m3u playlist format to download and play on BackAmp, a WinAmp compatible clone for the Amiga suited for 68040 based Amiga computers like the A4000 and A3000.

You can see it has a mapped persistent share to my Synology NAS. It looks pretty modern - and - it is kind of an illusion - it is pretty - but it isn't really on the level of modern Windows/Mac OS/Linux platforms. It can't access Facebook or X or even Uncensored - they're just too demanding for this processor.

But it is bare metal FPGA - running native code without translation - not emulation. But I took this screenshot, while it was multitasking web browsing and streaming audio - and saved it to my NAS, so I could cut and paste it on Facebook, and now, here - with the same ease you would do the same on a Windows, Mac, or Linux machine.

Which is pretty cool. Otherwise, it acts like a very compatible ancient Amiga - with modern benefits. I can boot into any one of about a half dozen Amiga OS systems from Amiga OS 1.2 to 3.9, and AROS, a modern open source alternative AmigaOS - or ApolloOS, an Aros variant specific to Vampire platforms.

If you want a more general

I have a MiSTer Pi but haven't used it much. I wanted to make an open-source knockoff of the 68080 and SAGA cores. The MiniMig core on the MiSTer series platforms is glacial and under-developed in some ways and based more directly on running the same software as WinUAE and related emulation. For example, the MiniMig core has an integrated Defina Flipper or equivalent in the core so that any standardized APIs like AHI and P96 drivers (using the UAE_gfx driver, IIRC) can just work with existing software. The reason I wanted to make an open-source knockoff of the Apollo cores are that ApolloOS is open-source and a far more viable alternative to AmigaOS than any other open-source variant. AROS tries to be cross-hardware but loses most of the efficiency of the original platform, thus defeating the purpose of its continued development, IMO.

The basis of my development wasn't to make just a new core for running Apollo compatible Amiga software but to build up higher-level gate layout tools and toolchains. I wouldn't waste my time writing raw VHDL like Gunnar (the original Apollo core developer) does, nor would I use Varilog variants because they introduce ambiguity into the finished gate layouts. The most promising higher-level gate layout language is SpinalHDL, a dialect of Scala v2. The more I learn about the major release of Scala v3 strongly suggests that it is a major-release break that shouldn't have happened and that it would be wiser to fork Scala2 and continue from there rather than try to migrate to Scala3, due to major regressions and bad changes in the runtime.

Where I lost interest, is where Gunnar von Boehn decided to add a "proper" MMU to the 68080 which increased the complexity level of the core design to the point that I lost interest almost entirely. The EmuTOS environment needs it but the Amiga side rarely does. If the Amiga needs it, its only for diagnostics and parlor tricks. Maybe someday, if the LibSnowHouse and its LibCheeseVoyage dependency emerge as anything useful, it might be something useful for developing a core but for now, I'm done.

Message #2099551335

Sat, 03 Jan 2026 03:42:47 -0000

I'm pretty sure my Surface Pro 5 is a 64 bit platform - not 32 bit. Maybe I'm wrong.

I don't think a platform has to be supported indefinitely - and I love that there are retro-movements keeping things working all the way back to 8 bit platforms. Unofficial support can sustain the lifespan of nearly any technology practically "indefinitely" to the point that I am nearing 60 and there are methods to get a Commodore 64 or Atari 800 online with TCP/IP today.

But - I think both Apple and Microsoft abuse this concept to the disadvantage of the consumer.

Sun Dec 28 2025 15:34:34 UTC from Nurb432

The point is that its 32bit. Not that it was old or out of support, or even that it was an Apple product. If one is still fighting with a 32bit 'computer' ( non IoT device ), its time to move on. If one cant afford a new one, plenty of cheap refurb 64 bit out there. And yes, due to Microsoft teaming up with Intel and AMD for forced early obsolescence, there will be lots more available coming soon.

Now all that said, i don't feel that a company should support a device *forever*. At some point its cost prohibitive and not practical as legit new stuff comes around ( like new instruction set extensions which directly effects backward compatibility ) . Now is that last years models? No, of course not. But there does have to have a line in the sand, somewhere.

Sun Dec 28 2025 06:45:26 UTC from ParanoidDelusions

I disagree. I've got an "Early 2013" iMac and an i7 Macbook Pro and neither of them will run BigSur - and either could. So I can't update to the latest browsers.

Windows is doing the same shit with Windows 11. Excluding machines that can plausibly run the latest OS - forcing hardware upgrades and unnecessary hardware obsolescence.

My friend brought me his mother-in-laws Late 2013 iMac. Both nearly identical i5 cores and relatively powerful GPUs. The difference, I've cracked mine open and it has 16GB of memory and a 512GB SSD, vs the late 2013 has 8 GB of memory and a 500GB mechanical hd. Mine is absolutely more powerful - but because they're not "user upgradable," mine is prohibited from Big Sur, from OS X 11 - and therefore "obsolete".

That is absolute bullshit.

I can run a hacked version of OS X 11, of course - but doesn't that defeat the purpose of running Mac OS?

Mon Dec 22 2025 17:03:15 UTC from Nurb432

On a message board about FORTH, a guy is complaining that he cant get things to run on his 32 bit macbook..

Dude, its time to move on.. really..

Message #2099550688

Sun, 28 Dec 2025 15:34:34 -0000

The point is that its 32bit. Not that it was old or out of support, or even that it was an Apple product. If one is still fighting with a 32bit 'computer' ( non IoT device ), its time to move on. If one cant afford a new one, plenty of cheap refurb 64 bit out there. And yes, due to Microsoft teaming up with Intel and AMD for forced early obsolescence, there will be lots more available coming soon.

Now all that said, i don't feel that a company should support a device *forever*. At some point its cost prohibitive and not practical as legit new stuff comes around ( like new instruction set extensions which directly effects backward compatibility ) . Now is that last years models? No, of course not. But there does have to have a line in the sand, somewhere.

Sun Dec 28 2025 06:45:26 UTC from ParanoidDelusions

I disagree. I've got an "Early 2013" iMac and an i7 Macbook Pro and neither of them will run BigSur - and either could. So I can't update to the latest browsers.

Windows is doing the same shit with Windows 11. Excluding machines that can plausibly run the latest OS - forcing hardware upgrades and unnecessary hardware obsolescence.

My friend brought me his mother-in-laws Late 2013 iMac. Both nearly identical i5 cores and relatively powerful GPUs. The difference, I've cracked mine open and it has 16GB of memory and a 512GB SSD, vs the late 2013 has 8 GB of memory and a 500GB mechanical hd. Mine is absolutely more powerful - but because they're not "user upgradable," mine is prohibited from Big Sur, from OS X 11 - and therefore "obsolete".

That is absolute bullshit.

I can run a hacked version of OS X 11, of course - but doesn't that defeat the purpose of running Mac OS?

Mon Dec 22 2025 17:03:15 UTC from Nurb432

On a message board about FORTH, a guy is complaining that he cant get things to run on his 32 bit macbook..

Dude, its time to move on.. really..

Message #2099550649

Sun, 28 Dec 2025 06:45:26 -0000

I disagree. I've got an "Early 2013" iMac and an i7 Macbook Pro and neither of them will run BigSur - and either could. So I can't update to the latest browsers.

Windows is doing the same shit with Windows 11. Excluding machines that can plausibly run the latest OS - forcing hardware upgrades and unnecessary hardware obsolescence.

My friend brought me his mother-in-laws Late 2013 iMac. Both nearly identical i5 cores and relatively powerful GPUs. The difference, I've cracked mine open and it has 16GB of memory and a 512GB SSD, vs the late 2013 has 8 GB of memory and a 500GB mechanical hd. Mine is absolutely more powerful - but because they're not "user upgradable," mine is prohibited from Big Sur, from OS X 11 - and therefore "obsolete".

That is absolute bullshit.

I can run a hacked version of OS X 11, of course - but doesn't that defeat the purpose of running Mac OS?

Mon Dec 22 2025 17:03:15 UTC from Nurb432

On a message board about FORTH, a guy is complaining that he cant get things to run on his 32 bit macbook..

Dude, its time to move on.. really..

Message #2099550648

Sun, 28 Dec 2025 06:40:24 -0000

I want to take a screenshot and share it here - but I'm listening to a playlist on my Vampire 4 Stand Alone FPGA Amiga on BackAMP - an Amiga WinAmp clone, while I surf here.
Bill Withers Aint' No Sunshine, right now.
It isn't that I hate digital music - it is that I hate what digital media has become - because playing lossy MP3s on my FPGA Amiga is better than lossless streaming on a modern system. It is just the RETRO part I like.

Message #2099549904

Mon, 22 Dec 2025 17:03:15 -0000

On a message board about FORTH, a guy is complaining that he cant get things to run on his 32 bit macbook..

Dude, its time to move on.. really..

Message #2099548606

Fri, 12 Dec 2025 12:13:17 -0000

That is what my 223 is for. "gotta eat"

And ya, i had heard of the project, since it ran Forth we talked about in my group a little.

Fri Dec 12 2025 03:52:13 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Well, you could save it for The Collapse.

Message #2099548574

Fri, 12 Dec 2025 03:52:13 -0000

Well, you could save it for The Collapse. [ https://collapseos.org/ ] I don't know if this project is still active, but they were building a general purpose operating system to run on microcontrollers so that after The Collapse (tm) you'd be able to scrounge microcontrollers from appliances in junk piles and restart civilizational computing. You can tell these people are crazy, because: 1. They're collapsniks 2. The project is written in FORTH 3. They believe the collapse of society will happen soon and as a direct result of climate change

Message #2099548338

Thu, 11 Dec 2025 01:03:14 -0000

Technically not ancient.. But related.

Cleaning the closet out more this week, getting rid of most of what is left of my 'gear'. Ran across an Arm SBC that didn't get tossed/donated last time. Older 32bit so of no value and basically out of support, so off to the can it goes. ( 2gb ram, 8gb of emmc, if i remember right. with WiFi and BT too )

Just makes you think, something we wouldn't even have imagined back in the 80s and 90s.. is now basically trash. Amazing how far we have come ( in some ways... ) or when i tossed some of my old phones a couple of years ago. Again, stuff we never thought was possible, outside of a scifi book.. i was drilling holes thru and tossing in the can.

Message #2099548270

Wed, 10 Dec 2025 17:52:36 -0000

It's not that I disagree, I just don't have a clean way to fit it into the data model. It would require new metadata tables and extra work that would slow down performance.

Appreciate the kudos, though. Just post a "💗" or something.

Message #2099547804

Sat, 06 Dec 2025 05:40:04 -0000

See... this is one of those posts where the option to "like" or "thumbs-up" or other emoji would be so much less bandwidth than the response you get.

I know... boolsheet social media... but this is a post I would have just acknowledged with LIKING the original post without a full response like this. I know I'm never going to win this battle with you, though. :)

Thu Dec 04 2025 16:46:55 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

IS THAT FREEDOM ROCK?!! THEN TURN IT UP, MAN!!!

Message #2099547803

Sat, 06 Dec 2025 05:38:16 -0000

It has been so long since I won like that.

Sun Nov 30 2025 14:41:33 UTC from Nurb432

I took the week off from work. I got zero accomplished at home either.

Not complaining.

Message #2099547653

Fri, 05 Dec 2025 01:03:36 -0000

I was listening to my AI music on way home from dog social tonight, does that count?

Thu Dec 04 2025 16:46:55 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

I'm listening to Layla streaming over internet Radio on my V4
right now... I surfed the directory.shoutcast.com site on the

IS THAT FREEDOM ROCK?!! THEN TURN IT UP, MAN!!!

Message #2099547580

Thu, 04 Dec 2025 16:46:55 -0000

>I'm listening to Layla streaming over internet Radio on my V4 >right now... I surfed the directory.shoutcast.com site on the IS THAT FREEDOM ROCK?!! THEN TURN IT UP, MAN!!!

Message #2099547009

Sun, 30 Nov 2025 14:41:33 -0000

I took the week off from work. I got zero accomplished at home either.

Not complaining.

Sat Nov 29 2025 16:27:58 UTC from ParanoidDelusions

Got several ongoing challenges with technology worked out this week - which is a general win! :D

Message #2099546916

Sat, 29 Nov 2025 16:27:58 -0000

Got several ongoing challenges with technology worked out this week - which is a general win! :D

Message #2099546909

Sat, 29 Nov 2025 15:40:30 -0000

I see you got the image thing worked out.

Sat Nov 29 2025 06:24:24 UTC from ParanoidDelusions

*snip*

Message #2099546874

Sat, 29 Nov 2025 06:24:24 -0000

An Apollo V4 standalone Amiga "clone" - for lack of a better word - it is an FPGA Amiga built on a hypothetical 68080 that is 68040 instruction backward compatible - dispensing with the 68060 which was evidently difficult to work with and broke a lot of backwards instructional compatibility. It is running iBrowse - in this case, searching Soutcast.com for streaming radio stations in .m3u playlist format to download and play on BackAmp, a WinAmp compatible clone for the Amiga suited for 68040 based Amiga computers like the A4000 and A3000.

You can see it has a mapped persistent share to my Synology NAS. It looks pretty modern - and - it is kind of an illusion - it is pretty - but it isn't really on the level of modern Windows/Mac OS/Linux platforms. It can't access Facebook or X or even Uncensored - they're just too demanding for this processor.

But it is bare metal FPGA - running native code without translation - not emulation. But I took this screenshot, while it was multitaskin

Message #2099546620

Thu, 27 Nov 2025 04:24:09 -0000

So... I can't believe I missed this whole conversation. I should have posted most of what I posted in the Linux room here.

Look up the Vampire V4 Stand Alone FPGA computer. A bunch of German guys made this FPGA rig they call a 68080 - and technically - I guess that IS what it is. It uses the 68040 base instruction set and dispenses with the 68060 - which was not a popular Motorola CPU - but adds enhancements as a "what if".

I'm listening to Layla streaming over internet Radio on my V4 right now... I surfed the directory.shoutcast.com site on the browser to download the .m3u for the radio station from the V4.

If you can code assembly on a 68k, you can write code for this - and it is relatively powerful - like... PPC powerful.

It is "modern" ancient, computing.

It is awesome. When it works. Apollo Computers is the website. If you get sucked in and buy one, don't blame me.

It'll also run classic Amiga 68k classic OS.

And EmuTos/ST

But it is mostly Amiga oriented.

Message #2099546573

Wed, 26 Nov 2025 23:06:18 -0000

Ok since it was veering far from UNIX.. thought id finish my thoughts over here..

Like i was saying, to be fair have to compare the equivalent generations between the different companies, even for me. Not fair to compare a Atari 800, to an Amiga 500.. or in reverse a Falcon to an older Amiga.. Or a C64 to a TRS-80 Mdl-1..

Since i had commodore friends, i could always compare the current gen side by side, and i always felt mine were better. Sure, some of it was that once the ST came out and i moved over to them, i got used to GEM, and not the Amiga desktop thing. ( which i wasn't a fan of ), but i still felt in a fair 1:1, my side always won. Or a few times, it was close enough to say it was a preference thing.

One thing i did give commodore credit is during the end of the 8bit time, when the Plus4 came out, and its cheaper brother the C16 ( and the C116, which i never got to touch in person, but did have the other 2 ) I do feel it was a great advancement in 8bit at the time, and would have eaten the current Atari 8bit machines. But in this case commodore was one of the first to experience the market ramifications of advancement. "better isn't going to fly if its not compatible with what we have now", so it died on the vine. I think Atari saw that and as more 8bit machines came out, they tried to keep compatibility there. ( even if it wasn't 100% in some cases, but they tried ). Of course we re talking decades, so might have it a little off, but its how i remember the timing.

And while its again not fair to compare, i don't remember commodore ever offering a laptop option. Atari had a couple. BUT i don't remember Atari offering a luggable option that commodore did. And did commodore ever have a game system? ( thinking the Jaguar here, that 64bit GPU beast. And yes i know CPU was 32bit.. but still it was way ahead of everyone else )

And randomly: Once upon a time i did see an ST prototype or something that was similar to a first gen Mac. Unfortunately at the time i didn't realize how special that was. Was at a guy's house over in ohio picking up a memory board and an external floppy for my 520. He tested the floppy drive so i could see it work. Plugged it in the back, 'it works' and i didn't think twice. until a decade or so later "wtf did i see..."

And should i mention that my ST, with the proper cartridge, would emulate a Mac for 1/2 the price and 2x the speed? Or a x86 running MSDos? lol

Ok enough rambling about old stuff for one day :)

Re: PPC Apple

Wed, 23 Apr 2025 02:12:33 -0000

Oh there's not much that I don't blame Bill Gates for. :) If I had my way he would be punished for his crimes against humanity by being shredded alive in a wood chipper, feet first to maxize the duration of the experience. Supposedly IBM rejected the 68000 because of supply chain issues and support infrastructure. But we can definitely go ahead and blame Microsoft anyway :) My beloved Altos 586, which was the first computer Uncensored ran on in 1988, had an 8086 CPU ... but they added an MMU so it could run Unix properly, and it also had two Z80's, one for the disk controller and one for the communications controller. What a beast of a machine. But it still had to deal with the 8086 and Xenix ran Microsoft's busted C compiler where you had to deal with "small" and "large" memory models. I really liked the 68000, despite the fact that it didn't have an onboard MMU (as any Amiga user knew all too well). PowerPC did from the beginning, but the beginning was more than a decade later.

Re: PPC Apple

Tue, 22 Apr 2025 21:20:02 -0000

You can thank Bill gates for that.

Tue Apr 22 2025 14:33:50 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: PPC Apple

Segmented addressing should have been rejected by the entire industry as soon as it came out. Decades later we're still stuck with it.

Re: PPC Apple

Tue, 22 Apr 2025 14:33:50 -0000

The apple transition from Motorola to PowerPC was disappointing. The 68000 didn't live much longer after that, and the 68000 was superior in every way to the 8086. It had a flat 32-bit memory space from the beginning. Segmented addressing should have been rejected by the entire industry as soon as it came out. Decades later we're still stuck with it.

POWER and PowerPC were interesting only in observing that IBM kept so many different variants around for so long. They were similar enough that even to this day you run the "PowerPC" Linux kernel on a POWER machine. The convergence of AS/400 and RS/6000 onto the same architecture (now "System i" and "System p") speaks volumes about how little variance there really was inside those machines all along. It's just the half century old System/3X all grown up :)

Even their biggest mainframe processors are really just POWER wrapped by a whole lot of microcode.

Re: PPC Apple

Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:35:09 -0000

From what i remember she ran Linux of some sort on it. i had my own laptop, so didn't pay much attention, and while the tech in me can appreciate the PowerPC architecture, but i was not ( still not ) an apple fan.

PPC Apple

Mon, 21 Apr 2025 18:13:36 -0000

>Does that count as Ancient? :) Maybe, maybe not, but it's an interesting platform nonetheless. I quite liked the PPC-based machines in the Lombard/Pismo era. Great keyboards, relatively robust, repairable. Too bad MacOS was a dunce in that era. They made nice NetBSD machines though. I had a later Titanium machine too, but I never got NetBSD running well on it and kept it on MacOSX Tiger, which was livable.

Message #2099517410

Mon, 21 Apr 2025 00:27:58 -0000

At one point, one of my partners had a hand-me-down PowerPC apple laptop.

Does that count as Ancient? :)

Message #2099516158

Fri, 11 Apr 2025 13:23:10 -0000

Message #2099514951

Thu, 03 Apr 2025 12:02:57 -0000

No. Back the 80s they made things much better. Even cardboard.

Thu Apr 03 2025 02:45:43 UTC from ax25

T1000 terminator? Won't that thing break out of the box?

Message #2099514934

Thu, 03 Apr 2025 02:45:43 -0000

T1000 terminator? Won't that thing break out of the box?

Message #2099514467

Sun, 30 Mar 2025 17:01:18 -0000

Welp tossed my original T1000 in its box into the 'get rid of stack' for next week. And an Atari 1200xl..

Only things left now are a PX8 and Newton. A long way from having the virtual museum, over 100 machines on shelves in the garage.

Re: Floppy copy protection

Thu, 09 Jan 2025 14:53:05 -0000

I thought it was physical.

Thu Jan 09 2025 13:55:58 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Floppy copy protection

I wish I understood more about how CD's are "pressed". Is it a physical process or an optical one?

Re: Floppy copy protection

Thu, 09 Jan 2025 13:55:58 -0000

I wish I understood more about how CD's are "pressed". Is it a physical process

Re: Floppy copy protection

Sat, 07 Dec 2024 09:51:02 -0000

>Someone would come up with a new way of making the floppy drive >error out in a predictable way, then use it as part of a copy >protection scheme, after which someone else would update a disk >copying program to detect that type of error and reproduce it in >copies of the source disk. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum. > They tried that with CDs, actually, and some copy protection schemes were very good. Not unbeatable, but good. I think there is a Linux Magazine article scheduled for January about the subject. Nutshell follows: At first, CD games required you to answer questions whose answers were contained in the game manual in order to play. You would launch the game and at some point the program would as you "Which is the third word of the forurth sentence at page 40 in the manual?" Considering most games were copied over but didn't have their manuals distributed with the pirate copies, that kind of made sense for a brief time. Then they started performing simple checks against the CD. The popular one was requiring the game to have the CD in the tray. The game would check the label of the CD before launching, and refuse to run if the CD with the proper label was not inserted. This was a trivial thing to workaround. Then they started messing up with the CD itself. One of the earliest strategies to prevent a CD from being copied was to press them with so many defective sectors that disck copying software would error out before completing a transfer. Soon afterwards, they started including bad sectors in the CD with manipulated error correction data: the game would check if the bad sector was there and consider the CD legit if so. However, disk copying software, upon trying to replicate the CD, would find the defective sector and "fix" it with the manipulated error correction data, so any copy of the game would not have the defective sector and therefore end up not recognized as legit. So far, these mechanisms were easy to foil, but things got really weird with data positioning measurement (DPM), in which the CD was pressed with known sectors whose position was known by the program. The game would read the bad sectors and map their phisical position on the disk by measuring how much time it took for the CD to skip from one to the other. This system was hard to fool because domestic CD burners cannot replicate precise data topologies - meanwhile, mass commercial CD creation is doing with presses rather than burners. DPM is nowadays a defeated technique because you can extract an image with a program capable of taking DPM measurements and then mount the CD image with a CD emulation driver that passes DPM data through to the program -famous examples are cdemu for Linux and Alcohol 120% for Windows.

Re: Floppy copy protection

Thu, 05 Dec 2024 23:24:57 -0000

CopyIIPC could do this with its add-on option board. Had a hardcore-pirate friend who had one. He fancied himself a librarian of commercial DOS software and had pretty much everything he could download or trade for. Wonder what ever happened to that collection...

Ah yes, the cat and mouse arms race of the copy protected floppy disk years.

Someone would come up with a new way of making the floppy drive error out in a predictable way, then use it as part of a copy protection scheme, after which someone else would update a disk copying program to detect that type of error and reproduce it in copies of the source disk. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

I was playing around with Commodore 64 and later the Amiga during those days. By the time I had a hard disk I was playing around with Unix systems and had lost interest in the kind of software that required a copy protected floppy disk.

Message #2099498898

Wed, 27 Nov 2024 14:58:51 -0000

Well, this is cool. An AtariST emulator via javascript. Not 100% true emulation of course, and not overly 'useful' but still cool.

https://kaiec.github.io/EstyJS/

Message #2099497835

Tue, 19 Nov 2024 19:24:22 -0000

Oh and speaking of "emulation" boards... While not technically emulation since it was real hardware, I had a Z80 board for the apple II series ( ran it on a ][GS for a while towards the end, those were cool machines ) that let you run cp/m. Came from Microsoft, of all companies...

Re: Floppy copy protection

Tue, 19 Nov 2024 19:21:02 -0000

yes that was it.. i could not think of the name. I kept thinking PCDitto, but no, that is the emulation product for Atari ST. ( tho i had both of those boards... if you are going to do it, *do it* )

As well as the mac emulation board for the Atari ST. It used real ROMs. Was a real shame about that mac that fell off the desk at work and had to be scrapped due to a broke case/monitor and out of warranty. ( lol, i didn't do it, but i did not let it go to waste )

Tue Nov 19 2024 18:57:56 UTC from fandarel Subject: Floppy copy protection

CopyIIPC could do this with its add-on option board. Had a hardcore-pirate friend who had one. He fancied himself a librarian of commercial DOS software and had pretty much everything he could download or trade for. Wonder what ever happened to that collection...

Floppy copy protection

Tue, 19 Nov 2024 18:57:56 -0000

>Had a tool that also would copy protected disks ( for backup >use.. really.. ) and it would somehow inject the proper errors >into the right sectors. I dont think that was ever released as CopyIIPC could do this with its add-on option board. Had a hardcore-pirate friend who had one. He fancied himself a librarian of commercial DOS software and had pretty much everything he could download or trade for. Wonder what ever happened to that collection...

Message #2099497363

Sat, 16 Nov 2024 01:27:00 -0000

since talking a bout old *DOS dayas...... Back when floppies had physical copy protection 'keys' on them ( mostly physically bad sectors ).

Not that i was a hard core pirate ( even if i played on on TV a times ) i had a memory resident utility: dejavu

What you did is load up your copy protected application, it would check the disk, grant access, then you would use this to snapshot ram to another floppy.. Next time you just loaded the snapshot and you in effect by-passed the protection. AND you could make copies of that for backup purposes, and distribute them.. by accident of course.

Aside from the pirate angle, those copy protected disks were really unstable so there was a legit need for that sort of tool.

Had a tool that also would copy protected disks ( for backup use.. really.. ) and it would somehow inject the proper errors into the right sectors. I dont think that was ever released as a commercial product, for obvious reasons.

Fun times. Kids today will never know....

Message #2099497360

Sat, 16 Nov 2024 01:05:13 -0000

LoL, ya. i had forgot about that. Lots of facepalming going on back then.

Thu Nov 14 2024 18:48:49 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Heh. I remember when the clueless people pronounced the name of DR-DOS as "Doctor DOS". :)

Message #2099497159

Thu, 14 Nov 2024 18:48:49 -0000

Heh. I remember when the clueless people pronounced the name of DR-DOS as "Doctor DOS". :)

Message #2099495234

Wed, 30 Oct 2024 22:36:11 -0000

Oh and ya i ran it on DR DOS. not MS DOS. Was not a fan of them even back then. Damned thieves and manipulators.

Message #2099495233

Wed, 30 Oct 2024 22:34:56 -0000

anyone remember the days when staroffice had pretty much anything a 'user' would need, in one interface?

Office suite
Mail
browser
even a terminal emulator to dial into BBSs with.
and some other stuff

Miss those days. Even bought a license, just before sun bought them, ripped it a part and opened up what was left. World was simpler back then. ( and about the time many of us bought a license key for Blender.. and it fit on ONE floppy )

or i could go further back, Asthon Tate's Framework... Run it on DesQview X.. Supported local multitasking windowing stuff, but also remote X11, remote windows.. great stuff. ( and ya, i paid for all those too, and ouch was Framework III expensive back then )

Message #2099484273

Sun, 11 Aug 2024 11:48:53 -0000

Since i dont really DO anything anymore and that old hobby is dead, i dont normally pay attention to the weekly ( or so ) flyer i get from 'electronic goldmine' ( sort of like polypack from the 80s )

But this weekend they have "C.P. Clare Type 26 10 Pole 26 Position Rotary Stepping Switch" for 200 bucks. A real work of art. Back when men were real men, women were real women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. And one more bit of proof we dont NEED to digitize everything that moves.

Message #2099483854

Wed, 07 Aug 2024 16:29:19 -0000

That's about the sum of it -- for a recycler who's going to do the separation, it's worth it; for a consumer, not so much. Just send them to the recycler and be happy that you're reducing solid waste.

Message #2099482337

Sun, 28 Jul 2024 21:00:09 -0000

Donno. But this stuff wouldn't qualify for gold i'm sure. Such minute amounts.

Sun Jul 28 2024 16:58:37 EDT from nonservator

Is recycling electronics for the gold, copper etc still a thing?

Message #2099482336

Sun, 28 Jul 2024 20:58:37 -0000

Is recycling electronics for the gold, copper etc still a thing?

Message #2099482320

Sun, 28 Jul 2024 19:39:45 -0000

and a bag of DIMMs.. looks like for old servers. looked at a couple - 128mb.

I should have sold them when they had value instead of keeping them as spares and then forgetting i had them. i bet that bag was a few thousand bucks at one point.

Message #2099482284

Sun, 28 Jul 2024 13:53:20 -0000

oooo an entire bag of PCMCIA cards. Everything from a 2mb flash memory to WiFi... if i remember right the 2mb cards came out of an onsite analog pbx system that was perhaps 6'x20' in size, 3 or 4 cabinets of it. would have been running perhaps 500 phones, if not more.

And a bag of laptop DDR.. averaging 512. and a couple of really odd broadcom wifi cards. Not sure what they went into. Guessing 300 pin, with a single pin 'key'. ( i know what they go into now tho, 'the trash' lol )

Message #2099482036

Fri, 26 Jul 2024 00:27:01 -0000

Perhaps not 'ancient' but 'really damned old'

PCMCIA to scsi adapter

Message #2099481723

Tue, 23 Jul 2024 22:26:22 -0000

oooo no, not 10mb or 20mb its 2G.. wow. i was fancy.. i don't remember it being that big.

( decided to go ahead and take the disk out and destroy it before it hit the trash.. while chances of anything being on it ( or readable ) doing it just in case.

Thu Jul 04 2024 08:13:52 EDT from Nurb432

Dont see that every day.

In a box i thought was only ( electrical ) car parts, a 10MB ( i think.. might have been 20MB. not going to open the case just to see ) scsi drive, attached to a ASCSI adapter.

Atari was ahead of their time in adding a SCSI port on the back of the ST, but it had to be slightly different, so you had to have an adapter card. At least the MIDI port was standard.

Message #2099479217

Sat, 06 Jul 2024 16:27:24 -0000

*sigh* I remain disappointed that IDE (PATA) and then SATA came into existence at all, when that would have been the perfect opportunity to just move the whole industry from the ST-506 interface over to full SCSI and just be done with it. ATA only saved just a tiny bit of money at the very beginning. SAS and SATA are electrically identical. But I guess it doesn't matter now that SAS and SATA are finally on their way out. In a few more years everything will just be a PCIe bus extension, which is what NVMe actually is. Even the U.2 and U.3 form factors are just 2.5" disks plugged into a backplane that extends the host's PCIe bus. And here I am in 2024 just having built an all-SATA machine for my new server. Duh.

Message #2099478937

Thu, 04 Jul 2024 12:13:52 -0000

Dont see that every day.

In a box i thought was only ( electrical ) car parts, a 10MB ( i think.. might have been 20MB. not going to open the case just to see ) scsi drive, attached to a ASCSI adapter.

Atari was ahead of their time in adding a SCSI port on the back of the ST, but it had to be slightly different, so you had to have an adapter card. At least the MIDI port was standard.

Message #2099476458

Wed, 19 Jun 2024 20:47:04 -0000

Cant say for sure as im not even allowed back in the DC now, other than we still have some sort of onsite Z-series IBM hardware that the ops team babysits. ( times have changed.. Used to have free access to everything in the old days, would even rack VMware hosts in the and even had access to our disaster site if i wanted to drive down and visit.. )

Message #2099476457

Wed, 19 Jun 2024 20:42:39 -0000

Are they using it like a "modern" mainframe (lots of virtual instances running many operating systems including Linux) or are they just carrying over ancient workloads running on Z/OS (formerly known as MVS) ? IBM has a mainframe version called "Rockhopper" that *only* runs Linux instances. So there must be more than a few customers running them that way. At that scale it's basically an entire cloud in a box. So if you're not running anything hard-compiled for x86 or AMD64, and you're not running any legacy operating systems like Windows Server, it could actually make sense for certain kinds of customers. I continue to be surprised that the major clown providers don't offer IBM Z instances when they're so cheap to provision once the hardware is in place. But they do seem dead set against it. They don't even offer Z/OS. I went to a "mainframe" session at AWS re:Invent last year expecting to find such things but it was basically just a bunch of people talking about how to integrate clown workloads with mainframe workloads. And the thing they kept saying was "don't connect to the mainframe" - preferring instead to replicate data from the mainframe to the clown and then work with it there. And IBM is the only mainframe vendor still selling new ones. All of the others -- for example, Unisys -- are simply emulating their legacy architectures on AMD64 machines. I wonder how old you have to be to make megabucks being the only one left who knows how to support something, but also be able to do it long enough to keep working until retirement. I'm only 53 so I have to keep learning new stuff for a while yet.

Message #2099475648

Thu, 13 Jun 2024 23:52:53 -0000

Well, mainframe at the office will out live my career.

The project to decom it, pushed back at least 5 years. ( combination of reasons ). I wont be there in 5 years.

Message #2099473165

Sat, 25 May 2024 17:32:49 -0000

Grr make that Eprom not EEprom. typo.

I dont think EEproms existed yet. We still had to use ultraviolet light to erase them. ( i might even have my eraser around in a box somewhere.. donno )

Message #2099473164

Sat, 25 May 2024 17:31:06 -0000

And speaking of old architectures, i loved the 8031 series. It separated program space from data memory, in hardware. Just made sense to me.

I still have the last board i built with it on there, well never finished it but was mostly done. useless in the bigger picture but it still means something to me.

Back when i was still into that sort of thing, i was designing CPU architectures. Would use the boards to 'emulate' the processor, and the pin layout of a real thing so it was 'like it was real'. Never expected to be able to build it, but liked designing that stuff, and was hoping someday perhaps id get to work in that field when i grew up. Did a few in discrete logic. then realized i could use EEprom's to reduce the parts count *dramatically*. Most logic is just a 'Karnaugh map' anyway, so its easily reproducible in a ROM.. Perhaps not as fast as real gates, but the tradeoff was more than acceptable. Reduced chip count AND easy to fix, or change. Sort of an early FPGA, in a way. But then after that "why not do it in code and use the i/o ports like they were the real thing.... "

And since its 'pix or it didnt happen', the last board, 1987 ish..:

Mostly wired, ( other 1/2 is on the back side of the board ) but is missing the serial port driver chip. And yes, i stacked those 2 chips ( 32k ). Another short cut. Id find chips with the same pin out, piggyback them other than the chip select. Tho often times id use a socket on top, so could easily remove the EEProm and reprogram it ) Which one was active is driven off those 2 smaller TTL gates, based on address decoding. Didn't do piggyback if i was doing an official PCB to put out in the plant or something. This was just for dev work.

Fun times. Different world today.

8031s ( and their siblings ) were hugely popular embedded chips and all over the place back then. Much like the ESP32 is today.

Message #2099472951

Fri, 24 May 2024 11:20:26 -0000

Not been blessed. But, they have not sued any other z80 FPGA or emulation project.. I doubt they will this. Besides patents run out after a couple of decades, so that angle is over anyway. They could force a name change.. but that wont kill the project. "we renamed to Zeta80"

Assembly is where i started. With blinking lights and slide switches. ( slide as they were cheaper than toggle.. i was a kid.. )

Thu May 23 2024 22:59:09 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Cool. Has this project been blessed by Zilog or are they going to sueball it out of existence?

I sure do wish I had known just a little more about Z80 assembly when I was mucking about with my S-100 system back in the mid 1980s.

Message #2099472894

Fri, 24 May 2024 02:59:09 -0000

Cool. Has this project been blessed by Zilog or are they going to sueball it out of existence? I sure do wish I had known just a little more about Z80 assembly when I was mucking about with my S-100 system back in the mid 1980s.

Message #2099468356

Fri, 03 May 2024 18:41:49 -0000

Cool. Now that Zilog is killing off the Z80 after a couple of centuries ( ok, exaggerating, slightly ) there is a project to release an open source version, on silicon. A 1:1 pin compatible replacement. Using a 'seed studio' like place, except they do chips, not boards.

Long live the Z80!

Message #2099466656

Tue, 30 Apr 2024 12:00:44 -0000

Speaking of moca i have it running from my computer room to my "closet" ( mentioned it before. Last year upgraded speeds. I cant use a WiFi bridge reliably due to interference, plus i cant get 1G wifi.. ).

This morning, noticed both changed IP addresses.. how odd. Even during power outages they have never done that.

Message #2099466456

Sun, 28 Apr 2024 19:42:40 -0000

They did. But never saw them outside of a few targeted markets.

We used them at Ford in the plants.

Sun Apr 28 2024 14:56:01 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

It does, and as I mentioned earlier I think the people who make the hardware missed an opportunity by not making MoCA adapters that attach directly to the computer without Ethernet in between. Now that wireless has taken over everything and home Ethernet is pretty much the domain of the hardcore, that opportunity has probably come and gone.

Message #2099466454

Sun, 28 Apr 2024 18:56:01 -0000

It does, and as I mentioned earlier I think the people who make the hardware missed an opportunity by not making MoCA adapters that attach directly to the computer without Ethernet in between. Now that wireless has taken over everything and home Ethernet is pretty much the domain of the hardcore, that opportunity has probably come and gone.

Message #2099466368

Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:06:41 -0000

MOCA works extremely well. especially if you already have coax in all your bedrooms (old houses).

Message #2099466149

Fri, 26 Apr 2024 02:12:05 -0000

>I'm using MOCA here in my house, it's been a game changer. Beats wifi If all you've got is coaxial cable and you really can't change it (such as if you're renting ... and your name isn't Cameron Gray) then MoCA gets the job done. I used it for a few months at this house when we first moved in, just to get the home office plugged in until I could pull ethernet. Wifi was pretty unusable as a daily driver.

Message #2099466060

Thu, 25 Apr 2024 11:08:27 -0000

whoohoo free internet!

lol

Thu Apr 25 2024 06:02:49 EDT from saltine

make sure it doesn't leak into my apartment complex.

Message #2099466058

Thu, 25 Apr 2024 10:02:49 -0000

I'm using MOCA here in my house, it's been a game changer. Beats wifi repeater with zero packet loss. It does inject 3ms of latency, though which seems like a lot considering without Moca my RTT to first hop is 1ms on the city fiber.

But 3ms predicable on every packet sure beats 1ms to 150ms on wifi.

I live in Europe, so I needed to acquire from US amazon website. I also added a moca filter to my main cable input to make sure it doesn't leak into my apartment complex.

Message #2099370670

Sat, 09 Dec 2023 13:09:03 -0000

Context does not matter much, but it was discussing forth on a C64. "I am unable to find all the files, but if anyone has the original floppies, i can digitize them"

LoL, i think he has the wrong hobby..

Message #2099369724

Sat, 25 Nov 2023 22:51:50 -0000

Different protocol i assume, but that was in effect what we had at the plant that i was talking about earlier, somewhere around here. ( early 90s ). Was coax direct to the card, and then back to the 'backbone' which also carried the in-plant TV system. It was 'just another network card' to the PC. ( mostly were PS/2 running OS2 at the time, later win3.x ) Unsure how many you could bridge off one port back at the 'hub' in the data center. We had it fan out across the plant so it was spread ot. My guess is no more than 20 devices per port was what we had, with some being TVs, some ' user computers' some 'dedicated print servers', and of course some 'plant computers' ( out in NEMA style steel cabinets sitting beside the actual lines ) . We also had 'bus lines' which were basically huge diameter versions, with large amps. they would feed the outlying buildings and far corners of the main plant. ( ~1.5 million square feet for the main building ).

When we went to token ring, it was point to point cat5 ( at least i think it was 5.. either way it was twisted pair. might have pre-dated 5, i honestly dont remember, and i didnt run the line anyway as plant electricians did it ). The 'switch' in the datacenter 'faked' the ring so losing one, didnt mean you lose the entire thing.. It was temporary until everything was moved to windows .. then later when they swapped out the ring modules for Ethernet, it was already 'ready'.

( before the PCs, it was serial terminals, and i think, via the same coax infrastructure but that was before i got there. I do know the previous place i was at, were still mostly using terminals, via coax. And yes, now i feel even older. )

Sat Nov 25 2023 17:18:43 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

I would have loved to see PCIe MoCA cards that could go directly into a computer without an outboard conversion to Ethernet in between.

Message #2099369722

Sat, 25 Nov 2023 22:18:43 -0000

MoCA is pretty cool because it runs over existing 75Ω coaxial cable, and it isn't sensitive to the wiring topology. You can run it through splitters, you can daisy chain it, you can do all sorts of good stuff. It does have a fairly low limit of how many nodes can be on the network, and it is of course a collision domain.

I would have loved to see PCIe MoCA cards that could go directly into a computer without an outboard conversion to Ethernet in between. In fact, I'll bet if they had made MoCA adapters cheaper and more plentiful, they would have become a major force in home networking, in the same way Novell made LANs ubiquitous in the early 1990s by flooding the market with cheap Ethernet cards.

Alas, the game has been played at this point, and the majority of homes are using some combination of Ethernet and WiFi. MoCA remains a really cool solution for homes that have coaxial cable in place and it would be difficult to rewire. On the pay television front, however, the use of coaxial cable appears to be on the way out. The current generation of boxes have both coaxial and ethernet (and wifi) and the pay tv providers are gradually moving channels from DOCSIS to IPTV. The use of an entire 6 MHz band for just a couple of channels just isn't a good use of bandwidth anymore.

In a few years you'll start seeing homes full of abandoned coaxial cable and wifi set top boxes.

Message #2099369269

Sat, 18 Nov 2023 23:01:31 -0000

moca is still a very good option for older homes that have rg6 especially when you're not in the mood to drag additional cables. i put it in and easily get 2.5gb in every room. outside service is still limited to your contract (500mbps +) only $65 for each room. i have decent wifi, but i also hate wifi.

Wed Nov 15 2023 09:28:46 AM EST from IGnatius T Foobar

...

I threw out a bunch of coaxial cable and fittings etc. this week too. I was moving a bit of existing ethernet into a smurf tube that I'd installed last year when I had the ceiling open. There was also a run of RG6 that hadn't been used in years, and I just pulled it out and threw it away. I think in-home coaxial cable is done at this point, even if you have pay tv it's going to come in over a data connection. Set top boxes are wifi now. I don't think we'll ever need RG6 again.

Message #2099369202

Fri, 17 Nov 2023 21:19:31 -0000

This actually came out of an industrial level balloon machine decades ago. ( long story - dad sold 'stuff' and this was damaged beyond repair during a move between customers, but the pump was still good, and almost new ). i kept it around for use for other vacuum needs. Sure its way overkill, but it was free...

And i donno about eBay, too many stories of people getting ripped off trying to sell ( well and buy, but at least you can get a refund pretty easy ). Was thinking of selling my NVIDIA jetson boards that way too, but backed out due to that.

Message #2099369032

Wed, 15 Nov 2023 14:28:46 -0000

Or ebay it. That's still a thing. I guess the automotive pumps are more high-end than the kind an HVAC tech would use? I threw out a bunch of coaxial cable and fittings etc. this week too. I was moving a bit of existing ethernet into a smurf tube that I'd installed last year when I had the ceiling open. There was also a run of RG6 that hadn't been used in years, and I just pulled it out and threw it away. I think in-home coaxial cable is done at this point, even if you have pay tv it's going to come in over a data connection. Set top boxes are wifi now. I don't think we'll ever need RG6 again.

Message #2099368962

Tue, 14 Nov 2023 16:12:47 -0000

I think i changed my mind. Those vacuum pumps can run over 1k.. i better keep it.

Message #2099368812

Sun, 12 Nov 2023 21:24:31 -0000

Cleaning the garage a little this weekend, and ran across a unopened box of 8mm data tapes and a radio shack 'phone recorder switch' where you would plug your analog phone in, and if you flip the switch it would also route the voice to a tape recorder. Ah. memories. And a 5.25 20mb ( or 10mb... cant remember now without looking it up ) seagate hard drive, should be out of a PS/2 Model 80 tower i had for a while, if i remember right.

I think ill toss my vacuum pump. Not done automotive AC work in decades.

Not sure if it still works at this point ( im sure the battery is toast, regardless ) but my TV coax cable tester/signal meter/etc was up on that shelf too. One place i worked, early 90s, we used coax to distribute both TV and network, at the same time. in the plant. Basically it was the same as future coax modems sharing TV from your local cable company... but cards in the PC instead of a box. I actually thought of hooking up an apartment building with them once, and getting us an ISDN line in from local dialup internet place, but they were too costly to make it worthwhile for people. Motorola things. Piss poor physical design as they had nothing holding the connector down but a bit of solder... was forever putting them back on. Ended up getting a bunch of free ones when we wen tto twisted pair, ( token ring.. yay ) but they were all ps/2 cards, so unusable except to a few.

Reminds me of the industrial ps/2 box i had.. i wonder where that went. i know its gone, since perhaps 95.. but I dont ever remember getting rid of it.. oh well.

Message #2099367615

Fri, 27 Oct 2023 00:17:07 -0000

FreeDOS saved my ass at a previous job

We had some controllers form Japan that ONLY ran via a MSDOS PC due to custom software written just for the device it hooked to. Even trying to run it from windows as a 'dos' program failed miserably. And by that point you were not buying it from Microsoft. Reverse engineering the software to recreate it was not practical.

Had a couple of machines die one summer and replaced them.. Thankfully FreeDOS was around and we didnt have to shut the place down. Sent them some $ even.

Message #2099367609

Thu, 26 Oct 2023 23:13:48 -0000

I have most excellent news to report. It is again possible to connect to Uncensored! using ssh from a system running DOS. FreeDOS 1.3, specifically, using the mTCP package, though the version of SSH2DOS included on FreeDOS's bonus CD won't do the trick. It only supports aes128-cbc as an encryption algorithm, which any sensible admin has disabled long ago. Somebody created an updated version of SSH2DOS supporting modern (2021) algorithms. It is here: github.com/AnttiTakala/SSH2DOS/. Looks like it is using aes128-ctr. I am typing on it now.

Message #2099366105

Wed, 04 Oct 2023 13:39:21 -0000

My first home built was a 8080. It had slide switches for entering code. Pain in the ass. Still needed lights so i new it did something.

Eventually i scored a bit of core memory via my mother. So that problem was solved. Later i got this fancy thing called a keyboard.. Eventually a used terminal from a ham swap-fest ( then had to write the stuff to make it do something )

ah, fun days.

Somewhere someone is/was doing a full repro of the Altair front end, and sold plastic front panels so it looked 'real'. tho i think he used emulation on a RPI in the back end, hooked the switches/lights to GPIO pins, to simplify things.

Wed Oct 04 2023 09:28:59 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Altair was the first S-100 bus computer. Most people only used the switches to get a boot loader going, and maybe if you were a real guru you might have used the switches and blinkenlichten as a debugging tool.

Sure, by the time S-100 landed in my world, the machines already had a boot loader at 0x0000 that went to the first 8" floppy disk and fetched a copy of CP/M. But the machine only had one light on it. Sad.

But if you're going to recreate the magic of a vintage computer from nearly half a century ago, you've got to go with das blinkenlichten. To do otherwise is sacrilege.

Message #2099366103

Wed, 04 Oct 2023 13:28:59 -0000

Altair was the first S-100 bus computer. Most people only used the switches to get a boot loader going, and maybe if you were a real guru you might have used the switches and blinkenlichten as a debugging tool. Sure, by the time S-100 landed in my world, the machines already had a boot loader at 0x0000 that went to the first 8" floppy disk and fetched a copy of CP/M. But the machine only had one light on it. Sad. But if you're going to recreate the magic of a vintage computer from nearly half a century ago, you've got to go with das blinkenlichten. To do otherwise is sacrilege.

Message #2099366055

Tue, 03 Oct 2023 20:46:25 -0000

some only ever used terminals with them. I believe a later model, had no front end switches.

Tue Oct 03 2023 11:41:51 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Why would anyone want an Altair clone that does not have das blinkenlichten?
If you're gonna go retro, go retro with the cool parts.

Message #2099366026

Tue, 03 Oct 2023 15:41:51 -0000

Why would anyone want an Altair clone that does not have das blinkenlichten? If you're gonna go retro, go retro with the cool parts.

Message #2099365923

Sun, 01 Oct 2023 21:14:49 -0000

https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/build-a-pocket-sized-altair-computer

Sun Oct 01 2023 13:45:03 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I need an Altair to go with it.

Message #2099365921

Sun, 01 Oct 2023 20:53:13 -0000

I hesitated on ditching them. But realistically, my retro days have long since passed. Just taking space.

A lot of my stuff is now like that. "do i really need this 3rd backup item? " normally no. Its not like i cant buy another if some bizarre thing would happen. I'm not a kid trying to figure out how to pay rent and eat at the same time. And with things like amazon, you can get it tomorow and not in 2 weeks via mail order, if a local store didnt have it. or something that 'would be good enough", so 'time" isnt an excuse either.

Sun Oct 01 2023 13:45:03 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Yeah ... most of my serial stuff was left behind at the office when I changed jobs 22 years ago ... they kind of needed it. I still have a Wyse dumb terminal.
I need an Altair to go with it.

Message #2099365914

Sun, 01 Oct 2023 17:45:03 -0000

Yeah ... most of my serial stuff was left behind at the office when I changed jobs 22 years ago ... they kind of needed it. I still have a Wyse dumb terminal. I need an Altair to go with it.

Message #2099365712

Thu, 28 Sep 2023 23:00:01 -0000

Doing some cleaning. Ran across some crossover serial and parallel cables i used to use to image machines back in the old days.

So much has changed

Message #2099355441

Thu, 24 Aug 2023 23:07:59 -0000

Even tho i dont do the retro thing anymore, id still love to have an STBook. i think a few did get out into the wild in UK.

The ATW, would have been a game changer for the industry. But the idiot sons had taken over, and were running the bus into the ditch while dining on golden goose.

Message #2099355433

Thu, 24 Aug 2023 22:52:38 -0000

Most musicians aren't as smart as you, and they bought Macs, even then. By the way, Amiga had a blitter chip too. I think the video focus ended up being from a combination of the excellent video hardware, its use of NTSC or PAL at a time when others were moving to multiscan, and of course the "zero detect" and "sync in" pins, which enabled genlock adapters to be built cheaply. Amiga seemed to have amazing sound but it was really just four DACs. There was no synthesizer chip. I bought my Amiga in 1987, at a discount because it was a floor model at a store that didn't want to sell them anymore, and sold it in 1993 for not much less than I paid for it. I did well on that. A few messages up I was talking about how regrettable it was that the Amiga didn't have an MMU. I think that's what truly held back that whole generation of machines. I ran Xenix on Altos machines for the first couple of years, and those had an 8086 CPU but they added an external MMU so you could run a "real" multitasking OS on it without fear. It wasn't until the 80286 came out that bog-standard PCs could reliably multitask, because the '286 had an on-chip MMU.

Message #2099355329

Wed, 23 Aug 2023 21:02:42 -0000

I was in a band at the time. Came from a musical family. So it was the natural choice.

While us Atari folks still think we were 100% better of course, trying remain rational, i think each had their bright spots

Atari was sound focused. And was more 'business targeted' ( and honestly they didnt do a good job marketing to the musician market )
Amiga was video focused.( even if we did have the blitter chip :) ) and seemed to be more 'consumer targeted'.

I also think it had a lot to do with regional markets too. Where i was Atari marketed more. Other places, Amiga did. Others, TRS did, others, Apple...

Both were centered around the same chip family so that is sort of a wash, unless you want to talk about the ATW, which hardly anyone got to touch...

And while its totally abstract and personal opinion, never was fond of workbench, TOS/GEM made more sense to me. I think it was due to the 'business market target' angle.

Wed Aug 23 2023 04:06:09 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I wasn't quite as much of a musician back then. In fact, it would be another 15 years before I even owned an instrument with a MIDI interface.

Message #2099355319

Wed, 23 Aug 2023 20:06:09 -0000

I wasn't quite as much of a musician back then. In fact, it would be another 15 years before I even owned an instrument with a MIDI interface.

Message #2099355294

Wed, 23 Aug 2023 16:44:36 -0000

That's right, Glatt was also the MIDI master.

Message #2099355286

Wed, 23 Aug 2023 15:54:29 -0000

As a musician i figured you would have appreciated the midi port on the ST.

Message #2099355285

Wed, 23 Aug 2023 15:54:16 -0000

Blast from the Citadel past: Jeff Glatt, "Supreme Amiga Dinko".

Message #2099355280

Wed, 23 Aug 2023 15:39:32 -0000

>I have my flame suit somewhere from the Amiga/Atari wars of the >80s.. MCIBTY. I was a big Amiga fan. I had the original Amiga 1000 with the RAM expansion pack that snapped into the front and all of its original awesomeness. Atari ST was a joke compared to the Amiga. And of course the Amiga was also attached by a serial port to the Altos 586 that originally ran Uncensored. Sometimes I think about writing a version of the "Boing" demo that runs in a web browser. It's trivial now, but at the time it was revolutionary.

Message #2099353247

Sat, 12 Aug 2023 15:47:24 -0000

Ya, while we all fought among ourselves. MS and IBM wandered past us and took the market with "good enough"

Sat Aug 12 2023 11:34:25 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

And now you know ... the rest ... of the story.

Message #2099353243

Sat, 12 Aug 2023 15:46:20 -0000

*cough* ST * cough *

I have my flame suit somewhere from the Amiga/Atari wars of the 80s..

Message #2099353235

Sat, 12 Aug 2023 15:34:25 -0000

Today I learned! We all know that the Amiga was the very best computer of its time, and was ahead of its time, even though IBM and Apple out-marketed Commodore to death. Smart people also know that the Amiga's 68000 CPU had no MMU, which is why it was so easy for a misbehaving program to stomp all over memory it didn't own, leading to the famous "guru meditation" error box. But today I learned a little bit about some of the AmigaOS internals. It turns out that one of the reasons the Amiga outperformed all other machines with similar specs -- aside from its superior graphics hardware -- was that the OS and applications were designed to make MASSIVE use of shared memory to pass data between userspace processes, system processes, and device drivers. A decade later, boring computers would catch up to the Amiga by allowing virtual address spaces that could bypass protection within them while still keeping errant programs from corrupting memory they didn't own. And now you know ... the rest ... of the story.

Message #2099338527

Tue, 02 May 2023 21:45:36 -0000

I have my "system alert" sound set to the 1 KHz beep from the Apple II. Because sometimes all you need is a beep. Not a boop, not a blip, not a plunk or a drip or a bark.

Re: R.I.P. Grex.org

Sat, 22 Apr 2023 12:37:55 -0000

I think I had a grex.org account. I know I had one on Cleveland Freenet.

Re: R.I.P. Grex.org

Fri, 14 Apr 2023 22:16:06 -0000

Speaking of old, I found out today that IBM still exists! (I'm in the process of writing up a blog article about how futile that is.)

Re: R.I.P. Grex.org

Fri, 14 Apr 2023 22:10:51 -0000

as us old timers die off.. so does our legacy

R.I.P. Grex.org

Fri, 14 Apr 2023 02:41:26 -0000

Grex.org, the Ann Arbor, Michigan-based on-line community established in 1991, is shutting down for the last time on April 15, 2023.

It was quite a big deal in its day. A lot of fine software hacks pulled-off and a lot interesting people passed through.

Sad to see another avatar of the kinder and gentler, if more naive, Internet of the past get redirected to /dev/null.

Message #2099334251

Wed, 12 Apr 2023 14:57:40 -0000

I just found the button, but I think I'll get to know Uncensored a little better before I start changing the topology. ;)

Wed Apr 12 2023 10:08:16 EDTfrom Nurb432

Well, if you want one, create one.. :)

Message #2099334235

Wed, 12 Apr 2023 14:08:16 -0000

Well, if you want one, create one.. :)

Tue Apr 11 2023 10:49:22 PM EDT from papa

I wonder why this BBS doesn't have a room dedicated to BBS systems and software.

Message #2099334227

Wed, 12 Apr 2023 13:30:21 -0000

Cynbe had said at one point that Citadel was inspired by a Dungeons & Dragons like program that he found on some old multiuser host he was on. It was a typical explore-the-dungeon type game, except it had a feature where you could write messages on the walls and other users could read them. People liked this feature and it became the focus, so he wrote BBS software that centered around that concept. This means his claim of being "first" is obviously an exaggeration, since he based it on something else, even though that something else is long forgotten. And it would be another six years before Citadel was rewritten on unix as a multiuser experience.

Message #2099334160

Wed, 12 Apr 2023 02:49:22 -0000

I wonder why this BBS doesn't have a room dedicated to BBS systems and software.

...

The Wikipedia page on Jeffrey Prothero/Cnybe tu Taren, the programmer of the original version of Citadel, states that Citadel was "arguably the first virtual world system" ([citation needed]). Citadel, then and now, is quite different from what we think of as a virtual world, but do you think that comment is based on Citadel message boards being presented as rooms that users move through to read and write messages relevant to the current room's topic, and chat with other users currently accessing the same room?

Message #2099334157

Wed, 12 Apr 2023 02:36:06 -0000

Ooh, Big Iron! The current focus of my retro-computing mania.

Other opportunities for communing with IBM mainframe and midrange computers:

IBM Z Xplore https://www.ibm.com/z/resources/zxplore (formerly "Master the Mainframe") Tutorial series on use and programming for IBM zSystems.

PUB400.COM https://pub400.com/ Public access IBM i 7.5 server (successor product of AS/400).

IBM 4361 https://wiki.livingcomputers.org/doku.php?id=vm_cms_survival_guide Host computer operated by Living Computers Museum + Labs is available on-line even though LCM+L is currently closed.

Don't get me started on DEC stuff .... ;)

Message #2099332537

Mon, 03 Apr 2023 16:35:06 -0000

Oh yeah! Now I can run all that JCL I wrote for the mainframe at Waldenbooks nearly 30 years ago. Time to dig up those 9-track reels. :)

Message #2099328558

Fri, 03 Mar 2023 22:35:45 -0000

Actually i had forgot about Hercules. Coming from the mainframe world it was pretty neat.

Message #2099328392

Thu, 02 Mar 2023 16:23:10 -0000

I finally spent some time learning about hercules. I've got MVS 3.8j up and running now, following Jay Moseley's excellent instructions. I really liked that not only did he provide the commands to get the system built, but also included enough background to understand the steps and why things needed to be done in the order they were specified. His instructions end with creating a 'hello world' program in COBOL, and then creating a JCL script to build and run it. So far, I've failed to get the JCL job to run successfully, but my eyes were giving out last night, so I'll give it another look today. After I remember how to IPL the system.

Message #2099322951

Tue, 17 Jan 2023 18:19:06 -0000

Heh. I thought of that too and you posted it first. Well done.

Message #2099322747

Sat, 14 Jan 2023 23:55:42 -0000

> 2023-01-14 18:51 from Nurb432 >Next he asked "what is a CCP file". > Damn Chicoms, they're everywhere!

Message #2099322726

Sat, 14 Jan 2023 18:51:17 -0000

Next he asked "what is a CCP file".

I guess i should not be too hard on him, at least he's trying something new ( to him ) and not acting like a jerk.

Message #2099322717

Sat, 14 Jan 2023 17:22:03 -0000

PIP B:=A: *.* Aah, CP/M ... it would have reigned for decades had it not been for Mary Gates meddling inside IBM. PIP was pretty awesome. Like its namesake on DEC machines, it could do much more than just copy files.

Message #2099322699

Sat, 14 Jan 2023 13:14:06 -0000

from a post somewhere else i watch:

"your cp/m emulator sucks! i cant figure out how to copy files!! where is copy command!!" ( really its not really a "cp/m emulator" and more of an "just enough hardware emulator to make cp/m run", but whatever i can see some lesser being not understanding )

"um, use pip, the normal copy program in cp/m since the beginning, and some research... " Clearly that person was not around in the old days and just ran across something ooooo, look that fancy retro-stuff i should do this and bug the old timers with newbie questions.

( or is this a rant instead? )

Message #2099322281

Mon, 09 Jan 2023 18:46:58 -0000

Something you dont see every day..

Bubble memory from a 1980's Fuji cash register.

Message #2099321160

Wed, 28 Dec 2022 23:00:00 -0000

> 2022-12-27 10:23 from IGnatius T Foobar >For some reason, something old and nostalgic is on my mind this >morning. > > When I started using unix some 40 years ago, it only ran on computers >with serial consoles. And when you completed a shutdown of the >operating system, the last thing you would see on the console was: > > *** Normal system shutdown *** > > And I'm wondering when was the last time I saw that message. It has >to have been decades, now that everything has moved to framebuffer >consoles, and when the OS completes shutting down it simply turns the >power off. > > Some BSDs still do something similar. You get "System halted. Press any key for reboot."

Message #2099321098

Wed, 28 Dec 2022 05:12:14 -0000

IRIX Release 6.5 does not output anything at the end of shutdown. This is because IRIX was made by SGI for SGI machines. 100% of the SGI purroducts that are supported by IRIX 6.5 have soft-power capabilities. There are a couple of caveats - during a reboot it says "Rebooting..." and when exiting the OS (to go back to the firmware) it just says "Kernel Exit".

Message #2099321095

Wed, 28 Dec 2022 03:49:31 -0000

Cool. The kernel code posted above seems to suggest that Linux would do the same. And I imagine that if you're using FreeBSD or Linux on a machine with a serial console you'd see it as well, but I also seem to recall that I've seen more than a few machines complete shutting down before the console's serial buffer was fully flushed, so it would never make it to the final shutdown message. Now that I think about it, the variant "*** Normal System Shutdown ***" might have been a Xenix thing, because that's what was running on the Altos machines on which I cut my unix teeth some 40 years ago. Which reminds me... < > ! * ' ' # ^ " ` $ $ - ! * = @ $ _ % * < > ~ # 4 & [ ] . . / | { , , SYSTEM HALTED

Message #2099321067

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 18:07:12 -0000

I first used FreeBSD on a machine that didn't have ACPI so it didn't have soft-power. At the end of shutdown, the kernel would say "System halted." and that was the cue to kill the power. Fun fact: the FreeBSD kernel still prints this message immediately before attempting the ACPI power-off, so if your ACPI is wonky or the hardware doesn't have soft-power capability, the message is still there.

Message #2099321066

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 18:06:20 -0000

Well yes, Linux does display "System halted" instead of "*** Normal system shutdown ***" because it's using the Linux kernel, not the original Unix kernel, but the point is that you seldom if ever see it because the very next thing that happens is the computer turns off. Here's the relevant kernel code: 0 void kernel_halt(void) 161 { 162 kernel_shutdown_prepare(SYSTEM_HALT); 163 migrate_to_reboot_cpu(); 164 syscore_shutdown(); 165 pr_emerg("System halted\n"); 166 kmsg_dump(KMSG_DUMP_HALT); 167 machine_halt(); 168 } Anyone care to tell us what FreeBSD does?

Message #2099321055

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:58:51 -0000

I've seen something simlar recently. i think on a Linux machine. But i forget why or the details. I normally do power off not shut down. unsure if i just did a typo or what. It was a vm.

I thought i did a restart but it was not alive. went into the console and it was sitting there in a 'down' state instead. "system halted" i think was the message.

Message #2099321054

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:23:05 -0000

For some reason, something old and nostalgic is on my mind this morning. When I started using unix some 40 years ago, it only ran on computers with serial consoles. And when you completed a shutdown of the operating system, the last thing you would see on the console was: *** Normal system shutdown *** And I'm wondering when was the last time I saw that message. It has to have been decades, now that everything has moved to framebuffer consoles, and when the OS completes shutting down it simply turns the power off.

Message #2099313238

Sat, 08 Oct 2022 04:40:18 -0000

6502 assembly. scratchin on bare metal. fav

Message #2099313217

Fri, 07 Oct 2022 21:36:05 -0000

i started on an 8080, it was the shiny object at the time.

Later in middle school, i designed my own CPU ... ( cobbled together using discrete gates and eProms once i realized that you could save TONS of gates by using logic tables inside a ROM.. ). it didnt do much, but it did function...

Fri Oct 07 2022 09:20:27 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

That's true. I learned on Z80 and 6502, and then in 11th grade I took an assembly class for the easy A, and they were teaching it on 8086, complete with its awful segmented addressing. I couldn't imagine what it must have been like for people who weren't computer nerds trying to make it through that.

Message #2099313161

Fri, 07 Oct 2022 13:20:27 -0000

>I spent many, many years on a TRS-80 Model III quite happily. Z80 is a >great platform to learn assembly language. I was already a wiz at That's true. I learned on Z80 and 6502, and then in 11th grade I took an assembly class for the easy A, and they were teaching it on 8086, complete with its awful segmented addressing. I couldn't imagine what it must have been like for people who weren't computer nerds trying to make it through that.

Message #2099312419

Tue, 04 Oct 2022 16:17:46 -0000

Tue Oct 04 2022 11:57:30 EDT from Greg Nesbitt

Vintage Machine 1: MIPS3 R4400SC 100MHz 64MB memory, IRIX 6.5.22

Vintage Machine 2: MIPS4 R5000SC 180MHz 128MB memory, IRIX 6.5.22

oooooh sweet sweet SGI gear. That's a teal and a purple Indigo, or something else?

Sitting at my Dad's place is an R10000 Indigo2, 384MB memory, I can't recall what IRIX release it is running. Complete with the weighs-a-fuckton 21" Trinitron CRT. It also has a working CDROM and floppy drive, and (miraculously enough) a working install set on CD.
He wants rid of it. I had my own, but parted ways with it about 10 years ago (stupidest mistake ever). I'm bringing it home, someday, somehow. Hiding places are hard in a 2 bedroom apartment. But I'll figure something out.

My SGIs are an Indy and an O2. I'd love to get an Octane2.

Message #2099312414

Tue, 04 Oct 2022 15:57:30 -0000

>Vintage Machine 1: MIPS3 R4400SC 100MHz 64MB memory, IRIX 6.5.22 > >Vintage Machine 2: MIPS4 R5000SC 180MHz 128MB memory, IRIX 6.5.22 oooooh sweet sweet SGI gear. That's a teal and a purple Indigo, or something else? Sitting at my Dad's place is an R10000 Indigo2, 384MB memory, I can't recall what IRIX release it is running. Complete with the weighs-a-fuckton 21" Trinitron CRT. It also has a working CDROM and floppy drive, and (miraculously enough) a working install set on CD. He wants rid of it. I had my own, but parted ways with it about 10 years ago (stupidest mistake ever). I'm bringing it home, someday, somehow. Hiding places are hard in a 2 bedroom apartment. But I'll figure something out.

Message #2099312330

Tue, 04 Oct 2022 00:28:15 -0000

wait i lied. Atari 1200xl too. i forget someone gave me that AFTER the great purge.. i didnt want it as i was done collecting, but he was so excited to give it to me..

Message #2099312329

Tue, 04 Oct 2022 00:27:01 -0000

All i have left is the PX8.

z80 + cp/m

Message #2099312313

Mon, 03 Oct 2022 22:52:19 -0000

Vintage Machine 1: MIPS3 R4400SC 100MHz 64MB memory, IRIX 6.5.22

Vintage Machine 2: MIPS4 R5000SC 180MHz 128MB memory, IRIX 6.5.22

Vintage Machine 3: M68040 25MHz 12MB memory, Mac OS 8.1

Message #2099312294

Mon, 03 Oct 2022 20:46:42 -0000

Realistically, yes.

Mon Oct 03 2022 09:17:24 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

. I guess that's all nostalgia is really about anyway -- trying to re-create the way you felt back in some other era.

Message #2099312272

Mon, 03 Oct 2022 17:43:20 -0000

I spent many, many years on a TRS-80 Model III quite happily. Z80 is a great platform to learn assembly language. I was already a wiz at Basic. We also had a FORTRAN compiler, which I never really got the hang of. It wasn't fully F77 compatible. FORMAT this, FORMAT that. Ugh. I have from time to time installed a Model III emulator and played around with TRSDOS and DOSPLUS again. Found that Pyramid game I spent years on and never solved. After a couple hours I'm pretty much over it. But it is fun to look back and remember.

Message #2099312253

Mon, 03 Oct 2022 13:17:24 -0000

I'm not sure what I'd *do* with a CP/M machine though. Maybe enjoy some nostalgia for 20 minutes poking around with it, then realize it's not really useful for anything anymore. I guess that's all nostalgia is really about anyway -- trying to re-create the way you felt back in some other era. The huge metal boxes and the 8" floppies and playing C&W Adventure, learning to program on DR CBASIC while my friends all had Apples ... on the other hand, I was suffering through the hell-on-earth of middle school, so maybe it wasn't the greatest of times.

Message #2099310281

Sat, 10 Sep 2022 20:06:01 -0000

This weekend, i might actually get around to installing a z80 core on my pano FPGA, so it can run cp/m

Its why i bought it.. been collecting dust ever since it got here wondering what its purpose in life is..

Message #2099305959

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 14:19:12 -0000

Dammit you beat me to it :) I saw this an hour or so ago but had stuff to do.

Message #2099305957

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 14:18:23 -0000

For anyone interested... [ http://www.cpm.z80.de/ ] The new news on the "unofficial" CP/M web site is that the actual owners of CP/M have finally, after decades, officially released all of the source code under a clear open source license. So if you're looking to build that awesome new CP/M machine, you can build and ship them with authentic CP/M. :) (I know, not that big a deal ... but I was a big CP/M user before IBM ruined everything, so it has some nostalgia for me.)

Message #2099305632

Mon, 11 Jul 2022 08:25:34 -0000

Sun Jul 10 2022 12:36:15 EDT from Nurb432

Will the OS see it all?

We shall see. MIPS is a 64-bit machine internally, all the registers and such are 64 bits wide. The only distinction between 64-bit IRIX and 32-bit IRIX is the address bus width.

Message #2099305595

Sun, 10 Jul 2022 16:36:15 -0000

Will the OS see it all?

Message #2099305592

Sun, 10 Jul 2022 15:40:42 -0000

I have a SCSI2SD board for my Indy. It's currently in my Quadra 660av, but I'm going to move it back to the Indy. I ordered a 256GB SD card recently and when it arrives, we shall see how a computer from 1994 handles such a vast amount of disk space. This is gonna be interestering.

I really should get another SCSI2SD board for the Quadra 660av.

Message #2099300401

Sat, 07 May 2022 21:12:16 -0000

Some days i wish i had kept my ( Lombard ) G3 laptop. It left during the great purge. But it really didnt take up *that* much space. ( or my original mac portable. Which of course didnt work due to the batteries being long since toast. ( who in the hell designs a machine where you cant even plug it in and use it, without fully functioning batteries.. )

Message #2099300396

Sat, 07 May 2022 18:03:20 -0000

I like the 729 MHz PowerPC machine you've got there :)

Message #2099299026

Thu, 21 Apr 2022 02:57:21 -0000

I don't have an Indigo 2. Just the Indy, O2, and that Quadra 660av.

Wed Apr 20 2022 18:18:26 EDT from Nurb432

I had ( and used when it was still new ) a purple indigo 2.

Message #2099299014

Wed, 20 Apr 2022 22:18:26 -0000

I had ( and used when it was still new ) a purple indigo 2.

Message #2099299002

Wed, 20 Apr 2022 18:02:33 -0000

My small "collection" of just 3 vintage machines.

Message #2099298066

Wed, 13 Apr 2022 00:16:34 -0000

Seems i lied 2 times. I also have a T1000 in its original box, in the back of my closet shelf. So i think that makes 3 devices, not including my Newton.

Was digging in there for a fresh spool of filament, noticed it up there, minding its own business. I thought i had given it away with the rest of the stuff.

Message #2099298023

Tue, 12 Apr 2022 22:34:27 -0000

LOL!

Message #2099297995

Tue, 12 Apr 2022 21:23:51 -0000

A few days later i emailed the dude "you wont believe what you had, it was one of 2 prototype boards, hand wired and signed by Jack himself.. they are worth about $100k now.. Thanks! "

Of course i told him the truth shortly afterward :)

Tue Apr 12 2022 04:11:59 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

People used to love passing on their worthless old computers to someone they thought would love and take care of it.

Now almost everyone understands there is potential value and hits eBay and knows what it is worth - they still want YOU to have it, because they know you'll take care of it - but they want you to pay, now.

Maybe it is also because they know I can afford it. If I were a broke kid - they might give it to me.

Message #2099297980

Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:11:59 -0000

People used to love passing on their worthless old computers to someone they thought would love and take care of it.

Now almost everyone understands there is potential value and hits eBay and knows what it is worth - they still want YOU to have it, because they know you'll take care of it - but they want you to pay, now.

Maybe it is also because they know I can afford it. If I were a broke kid - they might give it to me.

Sun Mar 20 2022 20:08:04 EDT from Nurb432

I guess i lied in another room. I forgot i had a 1200XL .. A dude at work gave it to me year or so ago. I didnt really want it as i was far past done collecting, but he was sooo excited to give it to me i didnt have the heart to say no. He was like a little kid.

Message #2099295920

Mon, 21 Mar 2022 00:08:04 -0000

I guess i lied in another room. I forgot i had a 1200XL .. A dude at work gave it to me year or so ago. I didnt really want it as i was far past done collecting, but he was sooo excited to give it to me i didnt have the heart to say no. He was like a little kid.

Message #2099290335

Fri, 28 Jan 2022 19:32:23 -0000

Funny discovery of the day: Forward and reverse DNS still assert that uncnsrd.mt-kisco.ny.us = 66.114.78.90 That's a very old name for Uncensored and the IP address of a 768 Kbps DSL service in my old house that I stopped using for hosting in 2007 and cancelled to get a fiber upgrade in 2009. I was sooooooo lucky to catch the small window during which the citadel.org domain was available.

Message #2099288522

Tue, 11 Jan 2022 23:02:19 -0000

The nerdier the group, typically the longer it has taken to fall. Kind of went "cinema, comics, computer gaming, frp gaming..." and our level is certainly the next domino in the chain.

Message #2099288280

Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:00:24 -0000

Interestingly, that particular front is not falling as fast as some others have, and that's a good thing. The shibboleths of open source software development are turning out to be a strong challenge against the shibboleths of convergence and entryism.

Or as a wise man said a long time ago: shut up and show us the code.

Message #2099281575

Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:43:30 -0000

lol

Message #2099281571

Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:28:38 -0000

Admit what? That there are woketards among us? It's pretty damn obvious.

Message #2099281126

Sat, 30 Oct 2021 21:16:12 -0000

Agreed.

Nice to see someone who loves Linux finally admit it instead of gaslighting me.

Fri Oct 29 2021 14:26:26 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

There is a portion of the FOSS community that *is* woke. Basically anyone who uses Emacs and insists on calling Linux "GNU/Linux" is a pinko commie who eats Ben & Jerry's and would rather lecture you on idpol instead of taking a shower. (There, did I get enough stereotypes in?)

There are definitely a lot of them among us, but they haven't taken over ... which is surprising when you consider that San Francisco exists.

Message #2099281023

Fri, 29 Oct 2021 18:26:26 -0000

There is a portion of the FOSS community that *is* woke. Basically anyone who uses Emacs and insists on calling Linux "GNU/Linux" is a pinko commie who eats Ben & Jerry's and would rather lecture you on idpol instead of taking a shower. (There, did I get enough stereotypes in?) There are definitely a lot of them among us, but they haven't taken over ... which is surprising when you consider that San Francisco exists.

Message #2099280732

Tue, 26 Oct 2021 04:25:51 -0000

I get the feeling a lot of the FOSS fundamentalists are actually the Woke Army infiltrating the community with the intent of replacing the unity of a love of retro-gaming with a primary focus on Identity Politics.

Which is how they operate in every community they come in and destroy. They pick a cause that is *slightly* polarizing - and then they ratchet up the divisive rhetoric on everything until everyone is arguing on if Orcs as a Monolithically Evil Race is a proxy for black people.

Seriously. It'll start with Free and Open Source software - and eventually we'll only be talking about how old white men are the gatekeepers of the RetroGaming community.

Re: More MiSTer

Sun, 24 Oct 2021 00:12:28 -0000

I hope the wokey dokies don't ruin it. They ruin everything.

Re: More MiSTer

Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:26:12 -0000

So which is it? The woke army or the FOSS fundamentalists? The latter are pretty easy to mess with; you just use words like "Linux" and "open source" and they tend to self-destruct. Because it ought to be GNU/MiSTer or something.

Re: More MiSTer

Mon, 18 Oct 2021 19:47:41 -0000

Kind of my outlook. MiSTer has gotten to a critical mass where it is mainstreaming and the toxic hordes are arriving. Before, there were hostile nerds - but now... we've got people showing up who define themselves by something ELSE before they define themselves as "retro-gamers," and that is always the death of a community.

"I'm a Black LGBT+, Communist, Retro-gamer - and I resent you gate-keeping me from this hobby with your white, male, heteronormative values!"

Mon Oct 18 2021 06:49:13 EDT from Nurb432 Subject: Re: More MiSTer

That's too bad. Room for everyone.

Mon Oct 18 2021 01:25:00 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions Subject: Re: More MiSTer

The FOSS evangelists/fundamentalists in the MiSTer community are trying to tank this project.

Re: More MiSTer

Mon, 18 Oct 2021 10:49:13 -0000

That's too bad. Room for everyone.

Mon Oct 18 2021 01:25:00 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions Subject: Re: More MiSTer

The FOSS evangelists/fundamentalists in the MiSTer community are trying to tank this project.

Re: More MiSTer

Mon, 18 Oct 2021 05:25:00 -0000

Posted... but took too long, security check failed. Lost my post.

The FOSS evangelists/fundamentalists in the MiSTer community are trying to tank this project.

Sun Oct 17 2021 14:56:47 EDT from Nurb432 Subject: More MiSTer

Some sort of 'all-in-one' carrier for the DE-10, instead of buying a bunch of add-ons

http://www.heber.co.uk/product/multisystem/

More MiSTer

Sun, 17 Oct 2021 18:56:47 -0000

Some sort of 'all-in-one' carrier for the DE-10, instead of buying a bunch of add-ons

http://www.heber.co.uk/product/multisystem/

Re: MiSTer

Mon, 20 Sep 2021 04:04:33 -0000

I guarantee you MiSTer will do it better. There is something about bare metal that is more... tangible, more convenient, more permanent. With VMs and emulation - (which is really what emulation is... just a VM...) your machine is a *file*. You load an app, then you load a file. Paths get screwed up, files get lost, things *change*... the OS changes, the VM/Emulator changes, some patch comes along and you upgrade and suddenly paths are broken and config files are lost and you go, "I don't want to set all this shit up from scratch again." Profiles get lost. Software emulation is a hassle.

Now - all that could be said about FPGA - you've got cores, which are just files that load and program the gates to whatever architecture you want to run, and then you've got profiles that point at HD images or configure the system (how much RAM, what speed processor, what kind of video, if ethernet is enabled)... But - they're highly static and there aren't all these abstraction/translation layers that are pr

Sun Sep 19 2021 09:45:39 EDT from Nurb432 Subject: Re: MiSTer

I knew you were a fan, but wasn't sure if you actually had one yet. I could not remember.

Not going to be getting into retro gaming with it, and was thinking more smallish RISC-V instead since it seems that the useful low end expremetal makerboards ( like BeagleV ) are being delayed again and again. At this stage i'm not going to sink 1500 bucks in a 'prototype' board, but i think the DE10 is enough to do it, with some video too. My other FPGA boards are a bit light for that beyond 'core' and i have that already on an IoT board i picked up last year. No, i dont expect to build a screaming RISC-V workstation and ditch ARM or something on a lower end commodity FPGA board, just something to play with and if it could do the other 2 decently as well, then would be extra incentive. I know it can do gaming type emulation, but id be running apps on their cores.

ST - well we all know im an ST fan.

386 - I'm thinking of setting up an old VSTa system, perhaps even mess with code again. ( coming from the other thread, getting tired of the industry.. )

But emulation on my desktop will do it all, so i still have to decide if i want to spend more $ on something that will mostly sit.

Re: MiSTer

Sun, 19 Sep 2021 13:45:39 -0000

I knew you were a fan, but wasn't sure if you actually had one yet. I could not remember.

Not going to be getting into retro gaming with it, and was thinking more smallish RISC-V instead since it seems that the useful low end expremetal makerboards ( like BeagleV ) are being delayed again and again. At this stage i'm not going to sink 1500 bucks in a 'prototype' board, but i think the DE10 is enough to do it, with some video too. My other FPGA boards are a bit light for that beyond 'core' and i have that already on an IoT board i picked up last year. No, i dont expect to build a screaming RISC-V workstation and ditch ARM or something on a lower end commodity FPGA board, just something to play with and if it could do the other 2 decently as well, then would be extra incentive. I know it can do gaming type emulation, but id be running apps on their cores.

ST - well we all know im an ST fan.
386 - I'm thinking of setting up an old VSTa system, perhaps even mess with code again. ( coming from the other thread, getting tired of the industry.. )

But emulation on my desktop will do it all, so i still have to decide if i want to spend more $ on something that will mostly sit.

Re: MiSTer

Sun, 19 Sep 2021 13:17:02 -0000

Yes, yes, yes.

So, I'm a bit of a MiSTer evangelist. This conversation, in depth - should really be directed to my BBS. It is kind of the niche I am going for over there - and I'll be willing to go into great detail and provide deep insight over there.

My blog, at donovancolbert.blogspot.com also has a lot of articles on FPGA and MiSTer.

The x86 core is actually ao486 - and is a 486sx architecture core that runs like a *very* fast 386DX for most intents and purposes. I run Windows 98SE, I've written up a document of how to set it up - and to give you a basic idea - I can do all kinds of "1996 telecommunications" from it, it is seen on my Windows network as a Windows machine - you could arguably run an era appropriate version of Linux on it if you wanted... and I completed Myst on it and have Diablo 1 running and roughly "playable" on it.

The ST core has worked for me well enough to play a variety of games - although it is less well-developed for MiSTer t

Wed Sep 15 2021 16:30:59 EDT from Nurb432 Subject: MiSTer

So someone said they had a DE-10 nano to run "MiSTer" cores.

3 questions:

Have you tried the ST core?

Have you tried a 386 core?

DId either or both do ok?

MiSTer

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 20:30:59 -0000

So someone said they had a DE-10 nano to run "MiSTer" cores.

3 questions:

Have you tried the ST core?
Have you tried a 386 core?
DId either or both do ok?

Message #2099277228

Sun, 12 Sep 2021 18:38:07 -0000

Well the cleaning frenzy has taken the life of my caclaior collection. Out it goes to a friend monday. As a bonus he gets a HP320lx..

After this round, wont be much left. Even getting rid of most current things that are not being used.

I think tools are next.. i have too many.

Message #2099277019

Thu, 09 Sep 2021 17:26:02 -0000

Wire wrap was popular in the 1960's and 1970's when computers were built with discrete logic. It was possible to configure new instructions into the processor's instruction set. Just about everything was breakout onto a wire wrap grid. I've also seen it used in telco racks, as an alternative to punchdown blocks. But as a method of constructing circuits ... yeah, way before my time too.

Message #2099276852

Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:55:07 -0000

It was still around when i was in school. But i agree, the time was fast approaching for digital logic, that it wasn't going to work due to clock speeds increasing. All those little antennas..

Message #2099276821

Wed, 08 Sep 2021 18:17:11 -0000

I've never seen it in the wild, so I'm sure it was a long-dead practice even when I was forced to do it for a class. I could be wrong, but I want to say the point was that bread boards were too noisy for some applications, so, tedious as it was, it offered some middle-ground rapid prototyping with lower noise but before you were ready to start fabricating PCBs.

I can say I have experienced wire-wrapping, but I am too young to have ever experienced those UV-activated EPROMs like the one in that photo.

Message #2099276702

Tue, 07 Sep 2021 21:10:08 -0000

I was never fond of wirewrap . I dont know why, it was an accepted standard..

Message #2099276696

Tue, 07 Sep 2021 20:47:48 -0000

Seeing that reminds me of wire wrapping projects in school. Unfortunately that was the last time I ever did anything with hardware. My entire professional career has been in software, for better or worse.

If I were a more motivated person, I would dig out my old bread board and play with that stuff in my free time. It's too bad the pandemic finally killed off Fry's, there was one near me that was a convenient source for that kind of stuff. At least, that's the excuse they used. I was suspecting something was up even before 2020 when I would go there to buy a stick of RAM and most of their shelves were empty.

Message #2099276587

Mon, 06 Sep 2021 16:18:01 -0000

I love the look of home grown circuit boards. It's got an aesthetic that cannot be matched. Through-hole forever!

Message #2099276401

Sat, 04 Sep 2021 01:07:20 -0000

My wife worked for Chip Gracey, at Parallax, the BASIC stamp Kit guys.

Also the guy that made the ISEPIK C-64 memory dump cart. He made that in High School, made enough to start Parallax, and then quit the C-64 stuff.

Fri Sep 03 2021 20:46:12 EDT from Nurb432

Ran across this when rummaging thru some boxes.

Classic late 80s embedded device. Made a lot of them for the plant i worked at. Came up with a rudimentary programming language for them. ( based on forth ). Mostly used for monitoring, a few did active controlling too.

8031, 32k ram 32k rom. I piggybacked the 2 memory chips to save myself PCB traces. ( this one was an early prototype, and missing the serial comm driver )

Amazing how far we have come in such a short period. Now an ESP32 does all this, at 32 bit, with wireless communications, tons more storage .. tons faster and fits within the space of the mCU alone. ( for perhaps 5 bucks.. )

Message #2099276398

Sat, 04 Sep 2021 00:46:12 -0000

Ran across this when rummaging thru some boxes.

Classic late 80s embedded device. Made a lot of them for the plant i worked at. Came up with a rudimentary programming language for them. ( based on forth ). Mostly used for monitoring, a few did active controlling too.

8031, 32k ram 32k rom. I piggybacked the 2 memory chips to save myself PCB traces. ( this one was an early prototype, and missing the serial comm driver )

Amazing how far we have come in such a short period. Now an ESP32 does all this, at 32 bit, with wireless communications, tons more storage .. tons faster and fits within the space of the mCU alone. ( for perhaps 5 bucks.. )

Message #2099273730

Thu, 05 Aug 2021 05:25:13 -0000

In the late 80s I had an Adds Viewpoint terminal hooked up to a MIC 504 Z80 dual floppy system running The Sanitarium on Cit80.

I wish I had hung onto that rig. It was awesome. BDOS errors were a PITA, though - but I bet there was some sort of hard drive solution for it, somewhere.

It was fun. Tonight I just played a few encounters of Pool of Radiance. My characters are 3rd level, which makes them pretty badass. They're out of the "one hit one kill" window with most monsters.

Tue Aug 03 2021 10:00:03 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Nice. During the first couple of years of Uncensored, I had my Amiga 1000 set up as a terminal on the unix system, so the experience would definitely be similar to that. (The other terminals were a Zenith Z-19 and an ADDS Viewpoint 60.)

Message #2099273539

Tue, 03 Aug 2021 14:00:03 -0000

Nice. During the first couple of years of Uncensored, I had my Amiga 1000 set up as a terminal on the unix system, so the experience would definitely be similar to that. (The other terminals were a Zenith Z-19 and an ADDS Viewpoint 60.)

Message #2099273514

Tue, 03 Aug 2021 05:13:21 -0000

Logged in right now via Telnet on my Vampire V4 Amiga - while listening to old school 80's rock - after an evening playing Pool of Radiance (The GOG version, which has some great cheats that aren't available on the Amiga version - although they would probably work on my MiSTer in ao486. I might have to give that a try. Anyhow... old school retro fun. Sorta.

Message #2099272426

Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:40:06 -0000

Here is part of what I hate social media. Arguing with Cliff Claven types who think they know something but social media puts their opinion on equal ground with actual experts on the subject - and the only way to establish this is to crush them and come off as an arrogant asshole. Members of the Participation Trophy generation REALLY get their hackles up when their FEELINGS and opinions are met with someone else's HARD FACTS:

Floppy-less A500 hard drive options?

level 1

PiddlyD

So, my thought on the subject is that mass storage really benefits most from an accelerated CPU. Why not just go with a Classic 520 accelerator, which will add a CF-to-IDE and removable SD mass storage option, along with a hefty RAM upgrade and a 68ec020 that won't stutter on all of those upgrades?

For around 200 euro - it is a great all-in-one plug and play solution that will get you up and running with WHDload titles on any later revision 1MB chip-ram A500.

https://amigastore.eu/722-classic-520-amiga-500-accelerator.html

level 2

commander_zzap

Yes and no. Pretty much every old 2d platformer/shooter/puzzler and so on, doesn’t benefit from any cpu acceleration. And Whdload runs with a stock 7Mhz Amiga and some fast RAM, giving you incredible comfort playing those old games. Also, the fast ram gives you in some situations quite some acceleration. On the other hand, polygonal 3D games, wing commander and some games like those from Sierra and Lucasfilm benefit to varying degrees from acceleration. Also if you want to do some “work” on your Amiga, then I’d say you need to accelerate.

level 3

PiddlyD

So, I disagree. I want to start off by saying that in addition to the genuine Amiga systems I also own a MiST, a couple MiSTers, and a Vampire V4 Stand Alone - and I'm an IT professional who has worked for companies like EMC and Intel as a Systems engineer/Admin in their datacenters. My first Amiga purchase was an Amiga 2000 in March of 1987. Not to brag - but just to establish - I'm not just talking about things I've read on the forums, here.

TL:DR - HD and memory upgrades are bottlenecked on a stock 7mhz 68k without a better CPU - and if you're going to do both of those, you might as well go all-in and add at least a 68ec020 CPU accelerator.

Long Version:

There is a notable improvement in response and feel with the genuine Amiga 500 with a Classic 520 or ACA 500 with ACA 1220LC, even on some 2d platformers like Great Giana Sisters - over a stock Amiga 500. You'll notice it at the opening rainbow scroll on the Time Warp Productions splash screen. Everything feels a little quicker, a little crisper, on any sort of accelerated Amiga compared to a stock 7mhz one. It isn't the day and night difference of playing a modern intense 3D game on stock Intel HD graphics vs. a Nvidia RTX GPU - but there is a *difference*.

But speeding up platformers isn't what we are talking about... and besides, too much speed actually will make a platformer *impossible*, which is part of why a V4 has a default "turtle mode" that slows down WHDLoad titles by default. Many games would play impossibly fast at the speed increases that a Vampire brings to the table for classic Amiga titles. Anyone who has tried to play an original DOS or early Windows platformer on a modern machine, if they got it to run at all, has experienced this. Donkey Kong designed for a 486DX66 is going to be unplayable on a modern i7 unless you slow that i7 *way* down.

But beyond the user experience with programs - an IDE drive makes i/o demands on your computer that SCSI offloads to the controller - which is part of why back in the day, Amiga hard drive systems were originally SCSI (and part of why SCSI remains far more expensive than drive subsystems like IDE, ATA, and SATA that came after it). This is generally why SCSI remained the favorite enterprise data-center platform long after SCSI was replaced as a home computing interface - despite its extra expense. (Enterprise SATA is a different story, though).

When using non-SCSI drives with a traditional 68000 7mhz Amiga - acceleration isn't really about how fast the *games* will play it is about the overall performance of the system and its discreet I/O subsystems. Any Amiga you intend on using IDE, including a CF-to-IDE adaptor, should benefit greatly from at least a 68ec020 accelerator.

It isn't necessarily going to speed up your experience in Lemmings - but once you add booting from the HD, loading MORE things because of having more system memory and more storage to load more things (like the WHDLoad framework, maybe MagicWB, TinyLauncher or other front-end, and other system utilities that run in the background,) and then start launching the games from the HD from WHDLoad... the *reasons* you want to load and launch from a HD system - acceleration will make the whole experience faster, quicker... which again, is part of the reason you would consider a HD system on a classic Amiga.

It is kind of like tuning your car without actually putting on a high performance exhaust. with an IDE CF hard drive system, the 7mhz 68k CPU becomes a bottleneck that is holding back a lot of the performance you've already paid for with *other* upgrades.

If you're going to do a RAM upgrade and add IDE to a classic Pre-68030 Amiga, you might as well go with an accelerator that includes it all. Otherwise, if you just want to play games, you generally only need 1 or maybe 2mb of RAM, and a Gotek on any OCS/ECS system where you primarily intend to play games.

But the acceleration does make a big difference on a lot of entertainment titles too. Bards Tale 1 is a painfully slow experience on a 68000 - it is a game that was pushing the limits of the 68k even when it was new. Play it on a 68ec020 CPU, and it is a far more enjoyable experience. Stunt Car Racer and other polygon games (which is what the Amiga was ABOUT, right?) are frequently far more playable.

The value proposition of an all-in-one A500 sidecar accelerator that includes IDE, 8mb of memory or more, and a 68ec020 accelerator is better, overall, than doing a HD and memory upgrade independently of a processor upgrade.

But honestly, at 180 euro - you're about another 180 euro away from just getting a MiSTer FPGA - which will give you an even more powerful Amiga experience that is just as authentic - and you'll get lots of OTHER authentic retro cores in the bargain for that price. If you are cash strapped - sell the real Amiga to a collector and put that money toward a MiSTer - you'll have more fun and get the MOST value from your money that way.

level 4

PiddlyD

Firepower is an additional title that is, by appearances - just a simple "capture the flag" overhead tank shooter game.

It lags and stutters and stalls out, has audio artifacts, on a stock 7mhz 68k machine. It was pushing the limits of the original Amiga it was designed for. It plays like a whole different game on an accelerated Amiga. There are lots of benefits to pumping up that stock 7mhz Moto CPU to at least a 68ec020 - especially if you are already contemplating a RAM and HD upgrade.

Message #2099271268

Tue, 06 Jul 2021 20:58:39 -0000

Looks more like a 3.5" from images i have seen, but i agree, still tiny. ( i could go get an STL for a case and measure it.. but im lazy )

Tue Jul 06 2021 04:42:14 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

About the size of a 2.5" portable hard disk, say, stacked 3 deep.

Message #2099271264

Tue, 06 Jul 2021 20:42:14 -0000

About the size of a 2.5" portable hard disk, say, stacked 3 deep.

Really small and convenient. That is the point. You don't NEED an extra room to have EVERYTHING you would like to have, but don't have the room for.

Sun Jul 04 2021 17:05:48 EDT from Nurb432

A DE-10 is pretty small..

Message #2099271177

Mon, 05 Jul 2021 16:34:11 -0000

addons: https://misteraddons.com/

And as everyone knows i'm not fond of using FPGA for 'emulating' old hardware at a gate level, but many do.. So you have that..

Message #2099271175

Mon, 05 Jul 2021 16:32:24 -0000

Its what you use for mister. The 'maker boards' sounds like you got the right one.

https://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=167&No=1046

You can use JUST, that or add a few pieces to expand it. but its still small. About the size of a NUC with all the extras and a case.

Mon Jul 05 2021 12:30:05 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

What's a DE-10? All I can find on teh interwebz are trains and a few maker boards.

Message #2099271173

Mon, 05 Jul 2021 16:30:05 -0000

What's a DE-10? All I can find on teh interwebz are trains and a few maker boards.

Message #2099271127

Sun, 04 Jul 2021 21:05:48 -0000

A DE-10 is pretty small..

Message #2099271119

Sun, 04 Jul 2021 20:15:49 -0000

Does it come with a bigger house that has a room to put it all in? I actually do try to keep my desk free of clutter most of the time. It was a stretch for me to put a small rack next to the desk to hold a few computers and my VPN router.

I don't even have my dumb terminal out of storage.

Message #2099269274

Mon, 14 Jun 2021 00:58:32 -0000

Trust me, I get a lot of what both of you are saying - and there is a lot of that in this for me.

I did the same thing with machines back in the day - we would trade them around, from one another to someone else in the circle - once we got bored with them, because we just wanted to play with systems.

Trust me - I think for $400 - MiSTer will scratch that itch in ways you haven't realized you had an itch yet, if you were that kind of person back then.

Way better than a $100 Pi for this - and... the "authenticity" thing - it nails that too, for the most part. I don't know why Emulation *feels* like emulation but FPGA feels like the real hardware deal... but it DOES.

You *think* the keyboard and case and original mouse and DB9 joystick... the drive click and other things like that are important... and they are... but... there is something else - something more pure at the hardware level - that defines if it *feels* like OG hardware as opposed to your i7 or

Message #2099269266

Sun, 13 Jun 2021 20:03:14 -0000

I wouldn't either as i know id STILL not use them even if i had the room again. But, id like to have the 2 unicorns i never did get: A STBook and an ATW.

My other favorite, the PX-8, i did keep when the rest went bye bye during 'the great purge'.

Tho running an emulator on my Pinebook pro is close to a 'book', its still not the same. It does not have the 'feel' of the real thing, which for me is a lot of it, and why i'm not fond of emulators.

Message #2099269262

Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:32:45 -0000

I don't really want to "have it all again". I think I just need to have the Apple II that my friends had and I missed out on, play with it for a while, enjoy some nostalgia, get it out of my system, and then move on. Back in the 1990's there was a TRS-80 Model 100 that had three different owners (including me) in the span of about a year for exactly that reason.

Message #2099267278

Tue, 01 Jun 2021 05:29:13 -0000

Get a MiSTer - have it all again, in a space about the size of a the stacked decks of cards.

Fri May 28 2021 17:12:49 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

We all had it at some point.

Eventually it gets smaller...

And ultimately most of us decide we'd rather use the space for something else.

Message #2099266834

Fri, 28 May 2021 21:12:49 -0000

We all had it at some point.

Eventually it gets smaller...

And ultimately most of us decide we'd rather use the space for something else.

Message #2099266754

Fri, 28 May 2021 11:43:43 -0000

I should have taken a picture of my garage before all of mine went away. Both walls were lined with wire shelving. Full of stuff. And some racks in the middle too, pointing inwards.

But reality of not really using them, and needing the space for machine tools and such, they all went away.

Message #2099266601

Fri, 28 May 2021 04:59:30 -0000

Oh, we've got 'em all too. from NES to Switch and every GB in between. Have you ever seen the pics of my Retro Gaming museum? I keep meaning to post a gallery of them on my BBS.

This one is pretty old...

Fri May 28 2021 00:40:41 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Don't worry about THAT part.

There are rooms... secret chambers... in the catacombs of the Sanitarium. There always have been. It was, after all - the Amiga Archives. ;)

No one cares anymore, though - anyhow... so it isn't like it used to be.

Thu May 27 2021 17:02:58 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Ooooh, we are actually a big Nintendo household here. We've got a GameCube, a Wii U, a Switch, and a bunch of 3DS.

After all, I *am* Italian and I know how to do plumbing.

From what I am reading, "LinApple" is the way to go. I suspect, though, that I have to warez the ROM images and AppleDOS disk to make it useful?

Message #2099266599

Fri, 28 May 2021 04:40:41 -0000

Don't worry about THAT part.

There are rooms... secret chambers... in the catacombs of the Sanitarium. There always have been. It was, after all - the Amiga Archives. ;)

No one cares anymore, though - anyhow... so it isn't like it used to be.

Thu May 27 2021 17:02:58 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Ooooh, we are actually a big Nintendo household here. We've got a GameCube, a Wii U, a Switch, and a bunch of 3DS.

After all, I *am* Italian and I know how to do plumbing.

From what I am reading, "LinApple" is the way to go. I suspect, though, that I have to warez the ROM images and AppleDOS disk to make it useful?

Message #2099266587

Thu, 27 May 2021 23:54:42 -0000

do arcades even exist anymore?

Message #2099266583

Thu, 27 May 2021 22:12:13 -0000

Am i the only person on the planet who didnt play games on their computer?

If i wanted to play a game, i used my console, or went to the arcade.

Message #2099266580

Thu, 27 May 2021 22:01:45 -0000

Thu May 27 2021 04:40:22 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I ought to set up an Apple II emulator. I always wanted one back in the day -- in addition to, not instead of, my Commodore 64. I should set something up and then play with those wonderful 40x40 low-res graphics for nostalgia.

Great Apple // games: (Apple // FOREVER!)

Short Circuit https://www.mobygames.com/game/apple2/short-circuit__ (yes, the __ after the name is in the link)
Dino Eggs https://www.mobygames.com/game/apple2/dino-eggs
Crisis Mountain
ICBM (I must not have the official name)

I am sure these games were available on other platforms.

Message #2099266572

Thu, 27 May 2021 21:09:42 -0000

LoL

Or he could use a real ARM machine not a child's toy.

/me ducks ( just teasing )

Thu May 27 2021 04:48:59 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Raspberry Pi 3B+ systems. ;)

Message #2099266570

Thu, 27 May 2021 21:02:58 -0000

Ooooh, we are actually a big Nintendo household here. We've got a GameCube, a Wii U, a Switch, and a bunch of 3DS.

After all, I *am* Italian and I know how to do plumbing.

From what I am reading, "LinApple" is the way to go. I suspect, though, that I have to warez the ROM images and AppleDOS disk to make it useful?

Message #2099266566

Thu, 27 May 2021 20:48:59 -0000

You know what are excellent for this, and a breeze to set up?

Raspberry Pi 3B+ systems. ;)

If you need anything getting there, let me know. I'm an evangelist for helping us AARP folks relive the glory of our 8 bit youths. ;)

But Nintendo kids can get off my lawn.

Thu May 27 2021 16:40:22 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I ought to set up an Apple II emulator. I always wanted one back in the day -- in addition to, not instead of, my Commodore 64. I should set something up and then play with those wonderful 40x40 low-res graphics for nostalgia.

Message #2099266564

Thu, 27 May 2021 20:40:22 -0000

I ought to set up an Apple II emulator. I always wanted one back in the day -- in addition to, not instead of, my Commodore 64. I should set something up and then play with those wonderful 40x40 low-res graphics for nostalgia.

Message #2099265155

Sun, 16 May 2021 13:36:23 -0000

Well... almost all Apple software has been converted to disk images that you can find and download off the Internet to run with emulators or on FPGA devices. Honestly, the *easiest* way for you to relive the Apple is probably the MiSTer and the FPGA core on it. Then you do away with all the peripherals and drives and floppy disks - and it probably can emulate the hardware peripherals like voice synthesis that you might need.

I'm not an Apple 8 bit guy. They were way out of my price range and I only ever got to use them for a short period at a time after a math class in 7th grade.

But on the Amiga you use a thing called a Gotek. It hooks up as a regular floppy to your genuine hardware, and allows you to mount a floppy image as a drive. Then you copy that image to a genuine floppy on a real floppy drive. Instantly restored physical disk.

Commodore users use an FPGA thing called an Ultimate 1541-II+

And Atari 8 bit uses a thing called Sdrive-Max...

Sat May 15 2021 23:33:58 EDT from ASCII Express

2021-05-12 02:06 from ParanoidDelusions
Those disks can be replaced fairly easily these days, ASCII. They're
all available in disk image format and there are ways to burn them
back from disk image to a physical disk, or to make the Apple read
the disk images from an SD card.

That is so cool that your parents were savvy enough to figure out
that being blind wasn't an obstacle to you being engaged in the
computer revolution and found the technology to enable that.

Oh really? I only have one physical disc. I will have to look into this. Any pointers?
Yes, my parents converted their business to computers. I remember they had a Unisys mainframe. They recognized that computers would take over. I remember my Mom arguing with the nuns at the school for the blind where I went. They wanted me to learn the slate and stylus, an old device for writing braille with an inverse point. In other words you have to write backwards. My MOm said, "These kids aren't going to use that! They will do everything on computers." They tried to ask what if the computer breaks, but my MOm would hear none of it.

Message #2099265114

Sun, 16 May 2021 03:33:58 -0000

> 2021-05-12 02:06 from ParanoidDelusions >Those disks can be replaced fairly easily these days, ASCII. They're >all available in disk image format and there are ways to burn them >back from disk image to a physical disk, or to make the Apple read >the disk images from an SD card. > >That is so cool that your parents were savvy enough to figure out >that being blind wasn't an obstacle to you being engaged in the >computer revolution and found the technology to enable that. Oh really? I only have one physical disc. I will have to look into this. Any pointers? Yes, my parents converted their business to computers. I remember they had a Unisys mainframe. They recognized that computers would take over. I remember my Mom arguing with the nuns at the school for the blind where I went. They wanted me to learn the slate and stylus, an old device for writing braille with an inverse point. In other words you have to write backwards. My MOm said, "These kids aren't going to use that! They will do everything on computers." They tried to ask what if the computer breaks, but my MOm would hear none of it.

Re: How Pitfall Builds its World

Wed, 12 May 2021 13:20:14 -0000

> 2021-05-11 17:24 from zooer >Subject: How Pitfall Builds its World >How Pitfall Builds its World > >It was quite an innovation to have multiple rooms [in Adventure], and >the fact that Adventure managed to have 30 was revolutionary. But >Pitfall!, made by David Crane and released in 1983, had 255, all of >which were much more elaborate (graphically speaking) than anything >in Adventure. In this article we'll talk about how this was done. > >https://evoniuk.github.io/posts/pitfall.html > Thanks for the link. I always thought that Rogue's approach was the work of a genius :-) but it is not really comparablr to Adventure!

Message #2099264579

Wed, 12 May 2021 10:13:44 -0000

In my case it was a friend that i helped out instead of his parents ( back in high school in the 80s ). He was perhaps 80% blind then. Slowly last that bit over the years. I hear hes getting along fine, given the situation ( we had a falling out at one point perhaps 15+ years ago, so we dont talk much now )

Last time i saw him was about 5 years ago in the hospital, he got ran over by a car. ( he always felt everyone should cater to him as he was disabled, and looked down on many people, so would not bother with traffic lights and such. Restaurants: "you are the help, serve me". ). Few broken ribs and a leg.

Message #2099264561

Wed, 12 May 2021 06:06:16 -0000

Those disks can be replaced fairly easily these days, ASCII. They're all available in disk image format and there are ways to burn them back from disk image to a physical disk, or to make the Apple read the disk images from an SD card.

That is so cool that your parents were savvy enough to figure out that being blind wasn't an obstacle to you being engaged in the computer revolution and found the technology to enable that.

Wed May 12 2021 00:31:19 EDT from ASCII Express

Well as usual when everyone else gets three or four choices, the blind get one. Only the Apple II/e had a speech synthesizer and screen reader, so my family got that. They didn't build it in, we had to purchase the card and software from a company, and my Mom and a family friend had to install it. As a seven-year-old I could only cheer them on, but it worked! I love that machine. I still have it, and it still works. Sadly I lent it to a friend when I switched to the PC and she lost all the discs but one. It does still have TextTalker at least.

Message #2099264536

Wed, 12 May 2021 04:31:19 -0000

Well as usual when everyone else gets three or four choices, the blind get one. Only the Apple II/e had a speech synthesizer and screen reader, so my family got that. They didn't build it in, we had to purchase the card and software from a company, and my Mom and a family friend had to install it. As a seven-year-old I could only cheer them on, but it worked! I love that machine. I still have it, and it still works. Sadly I lent it to a friend when I switched to the PC and she lost all the discs but one. It does still have TextTalker at least.

Re: How Pitfall Builds its World

Tue, 11 May 2021 23:34:47 -0000

Very cool. I read the whole thing. Pitfall was teh r0x0r.

Re: How Pitfall Builds its World

Tue, 11 May 2021 21:46:18 -0000

Funny. i was just thumbing thru a 1977 popular electronics magazine. 40 column printer only 250

( the cosmac elf, part 1 )

Back when it was still fun.

How Pitfall Builds its World

Tue, 11 May 2021 21:24:59 -0000

How Pitfall Builds its World

It was quite an innovation to have multiple rooms [in Adventure], and the fact that Adventure managed to have 30 was revolutionary. But Pitfall!, made by David Crane and released in 1983, had 255, all of which were much more elaborate (graphically speaking) than anything in Adventure. In this article we'll talk about how this was done.

https://evoniuk.github.io/posts/pitfall.html

Message #2099264429

Tue, 11 May 2021 16:59:06 -0000

And even smarter people pulled all their chips, cleaned them, re-bend the legs and put them back in. I did that when i upgraded the ram in both of them. Just thought it was a good idea, it was before i heard of the drop fix.

Oh, and my 2nd 520 which was not new when i bought it.... that i killed during that upgrade process. I tried to cheat and use a Dremel instead of soldering. On a new board it would have worked, but it was old and brittle. Broke a few traces down below somewhere.

Almost bought a Falcon, and a STacy. But the local store closed a week before i went back with cash in hand. So i lived with the 1040 for a few more years.

Message #2099264418

Tue, 11 May 2021 14:47:42 -0000

The 520 never had an internal floppy that I am aware of. Mine had an external drive too- the same model you describe above.

I know I had to do it on my 1040ST. basically when you drop it the keyboard compresses and reseats the loose chip. Smarter people just kept their case unscrewed and reseated it by hand when it worked its way loose.

I was not that smart. :)

Tue May 11 2021 08:47:18 EDT from Nurb432

My 520 didnt have an internal floppy. but i did upgrade it to 4MB. I only read about the 'drop reset' thing. never had to do it myself.

My 1040, was internal ( i dont think they came any other way, i dont remember now ) it also had 4mb

Message #2099264402

Tue, 11 May 2021 12:47:18 -0000

My 520 didnt have an internal floppy. but i did upgrade it to 4MB. I only read about the 'drop reset' thing. never had to do it myself.

My 1040, was internal ( i dont think they came any other way, i dont remember now ) it also had 4mb

Message #2099264362

Tue, 11 May 2021 03:43:32 -0000

Don't get me wrong... I was always pissing off my Amiga friends talking about how awesome Midimaze was and how there was nothing like it anywhere...

I've always liked trolling ALL sides. :D

But, seriously - I liked my Atari 1040ST. The 520ST was kind of useless - and I did think it was hilarious that the Atari Drop Test was a real thing to get it reading your floppy drive again. :)

The Amiga may have Gurued every 3rd boot - but dropping it from 7" above the desk wasn't a legitimate troubleshooting technique. :)

Seriously - you nailed it. The first time I saw Wing Commander with digitized voice and cut scenes on a 386 - I knew they were both dead-PCs walking. :)

Fri May 07 2021 11:22:31 EDT from Nurb432

oooo Atari/Amiga flame wars! Go! Kidding aside, while we all were too busy fighting among ourselves back in the 90s and not paying attention around us, IBM and Microsoft zoomed past us in the market with lesser quality stuff. But they won.

Still wish i could have got an STBook and an ATW.

Message #2099264019

Fri, 07 May 2021 23:36:16 -0000

IBM could have put their logo on a Timex/Sinclair 1000 and still "won". That was how things were back then.

Message #2099263954

Fri, 07 May 2021 15:28:39 -0000

speaking of. was out in the garage last night, and apparently i didnt donate my SM124.. it was pushed behind some boxes.

Message #2099263953

Fri, 07 May 2021 15:22:31 -0000

oooo Atari/Amiga flame wars! Go! Kidding aside, while we all were too busy fighting among ourselves back in the 90s and not paying attention around us, IBM and Microsoft zoomed past us in the market with lesser quality stuff. But they won.

Still wish i could have got an STBook and an ATW.

Message #2099263939

Fri, 07 May 2021 14:01:38 -0000

Yup. Same. Some friend of a friend in the modem scene got an A1000 in 1985. He didn't live in a particularly wealthy part of town - just some lower middle class kid. We went over, and got to play a game of Archon and watch a few mind-blowing demos.

In March 1987, as soon as the A2000 dropped, I bought one. Kikcstart in rom, 1mb of ram stock, expansion slots like a PC...

I should have waited for the A500... and the worst disappointment - EA had done something weird with the bootloader of Archon so it was broken on KS 1.3 rom Amigas - it only worked on the A1000. But... it didn't matter. There were lots of other incredible things to distract me from that disappointment.

Best computer ever. Nothing before or since has been as genuinely revolutionary and mind blowing as the Amiga was.

Fri May 07 2021 09:29:38 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

The Amiga was so cutting edge, I knew I just had to have one the moment I saw it. I want to say "ahead of its time" but it was really other computers that weren't keeping up. It would be more than a decade before other computers could do what the Amiga handled with ease.

And really, modern graphics systems don't really do what the Amiga did. They just added a few billion transistors and got better at drawing things with brute force.

Message #2099263932

Fri, 07 May 2021 13:29:38 -0000

The Amiga was so cutting edge, I knew I just had to have one the moment I saw it. I want to say "ahead of its time" but it was really other computers that weren't keeping up. It would be more than a decade before other computers could do what the Amiga handled with ease. And really, modern graphics systems don't really do what the Amiga did. They just added a few billion transistors and got better at drawing things with brute force.

Message #2099263866

Thu, 06 May 2021 21:44:37 -0000

Heh. It is probably worth about $250-$400 today, depending on what was in it. :)

Thu May 06 2021 14:09:39 EDT from Nurb432

No pictures. Amiga was of no interest to me at all. It just happened to be in the bottom of a box of Atari stuff i got from the local PC recycle center. If it wasn't 'modern' they put it in a box for scrap. I happened to hear about it and bought a couple boxes before they went off to be crushed.

Message #2099263828

Thu, 06 May 2021 18:09:39 -0000

No pictures. Amiga was of no interest to me at all. It just happened to be in the bottom of a box of Atari stuff i got from the local PC recycle center. If it wasn't 'modern' they put it in a box for scrap. I happened to hear about it and bought a couple boxes before they went off to be crushed.

Message #2099263798

Thu, 06 May 2021 14:49:13 -0000

It may have been. There are a number of weird, rare things that are super collectible now.

But also, because a lot of Amiga 500s were owned by kids - there are a lot of butchered, hacked machines that are just curiosities - and potentially impossible to support today, too.

It is a strange collector's scene.

You don't have any old pictures of it, do you?

Wed May 05 2021 16:23:05 EDT from Nurb432

Looking at some pictures now that i have time, ya it had to be a 500 as it had the keypad.

I figured that was not normal to have a drive shoved in there and it looked out of place. I guess i should have kept it, might have been something special.

Message #2099263723

Wed, 05 May 2021 20:23:05 -0000

Looking at some pictures now that i have time, ya it had to be a 500 as it had the keypad.

I figured that was not normal to have a drive shoved in there and it looked out of place. I guess i should have kept it, might have been something special.

Message #2099263694

Wed, 05 May 2021 17:50:41 -0000

Sounds like an A500, but an A500 very rarely had an internal hard-drive inside the case. They had a sidecar expansion where the drive would go.

The A600 could have an internal drive - and did not have a numeric keypad, so it wasn't as big... actually barely bigger than a laptop of that era.

Wed May 05 2021 10:02:07 EDT from Nurb432

I think i had a 500? I forget now. It didnt have a power supply so never turned it on before i gave it away. Got it with a pallet of other stuff i wanted. Had a HD in it. could see it thru the vents. I assume that was aftermarket?

It was a similar form factor as a single piece ST/STE ( not a mega but the low profile case )

Wed May 05 2021 09:28:57 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I had a genuine NTSC Amiga 1000, with the onboard expansion to bring it to its full 512 KB glory :)

So ahead of its time.

Message #2099263654

Wed, 05 May 2021 14:02:07 -0000

I think i had a 500? I forget now. It didnt have a power supply so never turned it on before i gave it away. Got it with a pallet of other stuff i wanted. Had a HD in it. could see it thru the vents. I assume that was aftermarket?

It was a similar form factor as a single piece ST/STE ( not a mega but the low profile case )

Wed May 05 2021 09:28:57 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I had a genuine NTSC Amiga 1000, with the onboard expansion to bring it to its full 512 KB glory :)

So ahead of its time.

Message #2099263652

Wed, 05 May 2021 13:59:36 -0000

You should see the things they do with an Amiga 1000 today. hardware upgrades have become incredible. Of course, with 35 years, the upgrade often has 1000 more times the computing ability than the whole computer did back in the day - so it is arguable that the computer is holding the upgrade back from its full potential...

But I wish we lived nearer so I could show you the various Amigas I have, genuine and FPGA, and you could go, "wow, that is amazing!"

The real mind-blowing thing is that even without upgrades, AmigaOS and Workbench hold up today and *feel* powerful enough to be the interface for a modern computing platform. Some of the advances that have been made in the GUI help in that regard - but the majority of those will run on a stock classic Amiga 1000/500/2000... so those are really just more like regular upgrades to the OS.

Wed May 05 2021 09:28:57 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I had a genuine NTSC Amiga 1000, with the onboard expansion to bring it to its full 512 KB glory :)

So ahead of its time.

Message #2099263649

Wed, 05 May 2021 13:28:57 -0000

I had a genuine NTSC Amiga 1000, with the onboard expansion to bring it to its full 512 KB glory :) So ahead of its time.

Message #2099263636

Wed, 05 May 2021 10:33:37 -0000

I do too, but in cases like this, its 'controlled' so not terrible.

Tue May 04 2021 11:40:48 PM EDT from ASCII Express

Congrats. I joined. I hate Facebook but wanted to show my support of the language and the group.

Message #2099263570

Wed, 05 May 2021 03:49:23 -0000

Yeah... I had an Amiga 2000... so... the 1040 was basically a game console. I guess I occasionally dialed out on it - but I did almost all of my productivity stuff on the Amiga.

Tue May 04 2021 21:19:15 EDT from Nurb432

Mine ( as most of my computers really ) was for productivity stuff, programming and dial out/internet.

Message #2099263568

Wed, 05 May 2021 03:45:22 -0000

I see how Clojure has made Lisp more popular, and I wonder if someone has done something similar with FORTH. It looks like the one you recommended works on the Arduino and other embedded hardware. How about something for general purpose programming on a desktop? I tried a few implementations a number of years ago but they didn't feel...well...modern. And I love how the core of the language hasn't changed, but I think you know what I mean. Any recommendations?

Message #2099263567

Wed, 05 May 2021 03:40:48 -0000

> 2021-04-22 19:52 from Nurb432 >If you do Facebook, we just got Chuck Moore to join the group.. I'm >still floored on that one. First Leo Brodie and now Moore.. what >else could a FORTH fan hope for? > >And dont shoot me for a FB link! - Congrats. I joined. I hate Facebook but wanted to show my support of the language and the group.

Message #2099263562

Wed, 05 May 2021 01:19:15 -0000

Mine ( as most of my computers really ) was for productivity stuff, programming and dial out/internet.

Message #2099263553

Wed, 05 May 2021 00:04:23 -0000

I always just had a 1040ST to play games on, mostly Midimaze - and got rid of it way before I got rid of the Amiga. I think Great Giana Sisters on the ST is where I went, "Yeah, sometimes the ST is better than the Amiga, but not often enough."

But Amiga is going the same way with AROS and the AROS KS rom replacement. No actual original Commodore code - but becoming highly compatible - and with new hardware like the Vampire V4 which offers an enhanced S-AGA mode and enhanced audio mode - new resolutions, higher sound sampling... actual hardware upgrades 30 years later that are resulting in renewed development. :)

Tue May 04 2021 15:51:50 EDT from Nurb432

At this point, if i still had a real ST id be running EmuTOS on it. its way more advanced than Atari's ever got to be.

Tho my use case woudl be the extended video modes too.

Message #2099263512

Tue, 04 May 2021 19:51:50 -0000

At this point, if i still had a real ST id be running EmuTOS on it. its way more advanced than Atari's ever got to be.

Tho my use case woudl be the extended video modes too.

Message #2099263494

Tue, 04 May 2021 18:21:26 -0000

Ah. Duh. The question makes a lot more sense framed like that. Not sure why I didn't realize that is what you meant.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/AtariST_MiSTer

All of the official MiSTer development is at the github.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel

This core looks pretty tight. I booted up and played Barbarian from disk image on it last night using the default EmuTOS rom it ships with. Didn't even bother copying my genuine TOS ROMs from the MiST - although I'm sure if I wanted to really get into the ST on MiSTer - I'd have to do that eventually.

Tue May 04 2021 11:03:04 EDT from Nurb432

I was meaning the ST core, not the hardware.

Message #2099263473

Tue, 04 May 2021 15:03:04 -0000

I was meaning the ST core, not the hardware.

Message #2099263456

Tue, 04 May 2021 14:19:24 -0000

Well... the DE10 Nano is really just the heart of the MiSTer. It is open source, with no official distribution model - but there is a baseline for "official, supported" design that anyone can make and resell.

The most respected source in the States is probably this guy:

https://misteraddons.com/

For creating high quality bundles and components for the MiST.

But you can really piecemeal one together, buying the DE10Nano on Amazon, the boards (memory and I/O mostly) from eBay or direct sellers like MiSTeraddons, then putting one together yourself.

That is generally what I've done. You save a few bucks that way.

Tue May 04 2021 07:13:02 EDT from Nurb432

Got a link to the real one? I saw a couple of unofficial ones a while ago, all with enough problems to not care about them

Mon May 03 2021 09:34:35 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

@Nurb...

I thought for once I'd knock a room ON topic...

Just discovered that the ST core on MiSTer is now a supported, official core. It is there with a version number and everything. I haven't tried it out yet - but... do you have a minute to talk about our Lord and Savior, the DE10 Nano FPGA development board?

Message #2099263435

Tue, 04 May 2021 11:13:02 -0000

Got a link to the real one? I saw a couple of unofficial ones a while ago, all with enough problems to not care about them

Mon May 03 2021 09:34:35 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

@Nurb...

I thought for once I'd knock a room ON topic...

Just discovered that the ST core on MiSTer is now a supported, official core. It is there with a version number and everything. I haven't tried it out yet - but... do you have a minute to talk about our Lord and Savior, the DE10 Nano FPGA development board?

Message #2099263387

Tue, 04 May 2021 01:34:35 -0000

@Nurb...

I thought for once I'd knock a room ON topic...

Just discovered that the ST core on MiSTer is now a supported, official core. It is there with a version number and everything. I haven't tried it out yet - but... do you have a minute to talk about our Lord and Savior, the DE10 Nano FPGA development board?

Message #2099261417

Thu, 22 Apr 2021 23:55:40 -0000

Meant to include a direct link to the ESP32 Forth stuff the group is working on, in case you dont do FB

https://esp32forth.wordpress.com/2021/02/20/new-version-7-of-esp32forth/?fbclid=IwAR1IAyklK68YPMkSjNrv_Ta0kfjUJRGCa8CRDEeQrTwx26Th9wtVa3-Ygbs

The group is not dedicated to ESPForth, just that its the most popular discussion at the moment.

Message #2099261414

Thu, 22 Apr 2021 23:52:03 -0000

If you do Facebook, we just got Chuck Moore to join the group.. I'm still floored on that one. First Leo Brodie and now Moore.. what else could a FORTH fan hope for?

And dont shoot me for a FB link! - > https://www.facebook.com/groups/2225595150855239

Thu Apr 22 2021 19:44:58 EDT from ASCII Express

Thanks, I'll check out ESB32. Great to see FORTH activity.

Message #2099261411

Thu, 22 Apr 2021 23:44:58 -0000

Thanks, I'll check out ESB32. Great to see FORTH activity.

Message #2099260569

Fri, 16 Apr 2021 19:40:56 -0000

doh! when i use the term "bug" in this case im using it in reference to the physical embodiment of the silicon device. jtag bug means the silicon chip embedded between layers of the printed circuit board. the presence of the device creates the security hole as you describe. bug can also mean a design defect either software or hardware that is exploited, which is not how i intended the meaning to be perceived. anyway... we're on the same page.

Fri Apr 16 2021 07:59:34 AM EDT from Nurb432

Not sure id consider it a bug. Just a security hole. ( that would be really hard to plug, as by design it bypasses security )

Thu Apr 15 2021 23:01:03 EDT from test2

zaphod indicated the chineese used the jtag bug to make edits to the the firmware after final inspection. the edits were the foundation for later remote exploits that also involved the jtag bug chip. it was a two step process, pretty well thought out. spurious traffic was the loose thread that led to discovery. of course these weren't your typical sites. this is the reason space command exists today. cyber warfare, happens every day. btw, the dominion traffic was captured by the cyber warfare spooks. don't have a clue what, if anything, they intend to do with it.

Message #2099260482

Fri, 16 Apr 2021 11:59:34 -0000

Not sure id consider it a bug. Just a security hole. ( that would be really hard to plug, as by design it bypasses security )

Thu Apr 15 2021 23:01:03 EDT from test2

zaphod indicated the chineese used the jtag bug to make edits to the the firmware after final inspection. the edits were the foundation for later remote exploits that also involved the jtag bug chip. it was a two step process, pretty well thought out. spurious traffic was the loose thread that led to discovery. of course these weren't your typical sites. this is the reason space command exists today. cyber warfare, happens every day. btw, the dominion traffic was captured by the cyber warfare spooks. don't have a clue what, if anything, they intend to do with it.

Message #2099260436

Fri, 16 Apr 2021 03:01:03 -0000

zaphod indicated the chineese used the jtag bug to make edits to the the firmware after final inspection. the edits were the foundation for later remote exploits that also involved the jtag bug chip. it was a two step process, pretty well thought out. spurious traffic was the loose thread that led to discovery. of course these weren't your typical sites. this is the reason space command exists today. cyber warfare, happens every day. btw, the dominion traffic was captured by the cyber warfare spooks. don't have a clue what, if anything, they intend to do with it.

Message #2099260371

Thu, 15 Apr 2021 18:08:32 -0000

I have also heard of it, but from what i remember reading it was pretty targeted. Certain server motherboards and not something widespread.

I think odd traffic was how they found out there was a problem in the first place.

( could be wrong but that is how i remember it when i read about it several years ago )

Message #2099260369

Thu, 15 Apr 2021 18:02:16 -0000

> This war is far more >dangerous than the old cold war espionage of bygone years. The >chinese are ethical monsters. "What might save us, me and you, is if the Russians love their children too" -- Sting Turns out they did. Not so with China. They don't mind killing a few million of their own if it helps them. Tell us more about the JTAG bug chip. It's interesting, and now that you mention it, JTAG seems like the obvious place to put an exploit, because it doesn't require messing with the data path in or out of the device. How did the bug chip connect back to China to deliver the data it captured? It would seem that sooner or later someone would detect unauthorized traffic on their network using an IDS or something.

Message #2099260104

Tue, 13 Apr 2021 22:34:52 -0000

FORTH exists on most every modern OS out there, and lots of bare metal too. ESP32 is a popular choice of hardware for a FORTH group i help moderate. After loading it you interact via a built-in web-server. We have monthly Zoom meetings too, several hours long. Last meeting Leo Brodie stopped in for a bit to talk.

Tue Apr 13 2021 00:25:18 EDT from ASCII Express

Thanks. I like Forth and wish I could use it more. I've never heard of collapseOS. I use a screen reader and speech synthesizer for the blind, but a minimal computer could drive a synthesizer. Interesting.

Message #2099260102

Tue, 13 Apr 2021 22:19:44 -0000

Use the forth!

Message #2099259998

Tue, 13 Apr 2021 05:07:15 -0000

Agreed. Art Bell was great. As I've mentioned, at one point I was in a circle that included Hoagland and a guy named Mac Tonnies who looked like he was going to be the next big thing in Ancient Alien Astronaut theory.

For some reason, Mac liked to bring me along to private chat sessions with these big guns - and considered me a bona fide "Mars anomaly researcher." I was always too star-struck to really do anything to leverage the opportunity.

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/tonnies-mac-41238/

Sun Apr 11 2021 14:44:33 EDT from Nurb432

Its not the same since Art left the show.

Back during the dark times and i was working nights to keep food on the table ( and a kitchen to have a table in.. ), it was entertaining to listen to his call-in guests. Wack jobs. About the time his show ended, it was time for me to go home. Show before him was Rush, and then the show before that was that business guy that i can never remember his name... he had done *everything* in his life.

Message #2099259992

Tue, 13 Apr 2021 04:25:18 -0000

Thanks. I like Forth and wish I could use it more. I've never heard of collapseOS. I use a screen reader and speech synthesizer for the blind, but a minimal computer could drive a synthesizer. Interesting.

Message #2099259883

Sun, 11 Apr 2021 19:52:30 -0000

Bruce Williams. ( ya, it took me that long to find his name. And I will forget it in about 10 minutes, again )

Message #2099259809

Sun, 11 Apr 2021 18:44:33 -0000

Its not the same since Art left the show.

Back during the dark times and i was working nights to keep food on the table ( and a kitchen to have a table in.. ), it was entertaining to listen to his call-in guests. Wack jobs. About the time his show ended, it was time for me to go home. Show before him was Rush, and then the show before that was that business guy that i can never remember his name... he had done *everything* in his life.

Message #2099259808

Sun, 11 Apr 2021 18:30:55 -0000

Message #2099259785

Sun, 11 Apr 2021 07:38:56 -0000

jtag was the open door china used to exploit all US designed network hardware that was manufactured in china. The red army designed a very tiny jtag bug chip that was in-bedded into the inner-layers of the circuit board. It was nearly impossible to detect the jtag bug chip as they located it in close proximity to other chips that would obscure the bug under xray. China was doing this for over 2 decades. This compromised commercial network traffic and allowed china to significantly spy on US traffic, commercial and some classified military networks. We suspected this was the case for years and significantly cleared Chinese sourced network hardware from secure military nets. Some leakage occurred. A careful forensic analysis identified the bugs and degree of penetration. Time was allowed to pass from discovery to public reveal (2020). The cyberwar is ferocious and unknown to the public. The consequence of the cyberwar has cost many, many lives. This war is far more dangerous than the old col

Message #2099259718

Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:57:18 -0000

If you like Forth, collapseOS seems to have changed over to that and is self hosting on some things now ( 6809 for example )

Message #4671510

Mon, 15 Mar 2021 22:59:56 -0000

*thumps up*

Sun Mar 14 2021 11:03:18 EDT from Nurb432

Its not *just* for FPGA, but for the discussion here, its what we care about.

And, Altera is on the DE0, so ya, you want the blaster. I have both Altera and Xilinix, so i'm covered either way as far as FPGA is concerned. I honestly dont know what you use if i wanted to stick it on a video card or router or something to do diags or screw with the settings, but I bet its yet another custom converter. Or perhaps just use GPIO and do it manually. Never had to care so never looked.

Its also how to recover phones in the old days when you bricked them screwing around with the firmware when those processes were not as 'proven'. But never bricked a phone so never had to try..

Message #4671351

Sun, 14 Mar 2021 15:17:45 -0000

Ok so i was curious and was looking at a few things. Gotta love google and the internet. Before it would have been asking for data books from several companies ( some $ ) and waiting several weeks.. Now, its instant and free.

I wonder now if other than the plug on the board if it really matters which usb/jtag you use. Plug of course is only for convenience. One of mine has several styles, and never really gave it much thought as one 'worked'. I guess if you are using commercial software with it, the software may know which device you have plugging and tell you to go fly a kite, but underneath on the board side, i bet it does not matter.

https://blog.senr.io/blog/jtag-explained

Message #4671348

Sun, 14 Mar 2021 15:03:18 -0000

Its not *just* for FPGA, but for the discussion here, its what we care about.

And, Altera is on the DE0, so ya, you want the blaster. I have both Altera and Xilinix, so i'm covered either way as far as FPGA is concerned. I honestly dont know what you use if i wanted to stick it on a video card or router or something to do diags or screw with the settings, but I bet its yet another custom converter. Or perhaps just use GPIO and do it manually. Never had to care so never looked.

Its also how to recover phones in the old days when you bricked them screwing around with the firmware when those processes were not as 'proven'. But never bricked a phone so never had to try..

Message #4671290

Sun, 14 Mar 2021 03:47:29 -0000

Ok. I've got a USB Blaster. It is evidently a good idea with the V4 SA FPGA Amiga - the routine to flash the FPGA through software sometimes fails and bricks the machine, so you have to reflash it with a USB Blaster to fix it.

That helps me understand the terminology better, as a retro-gaming hobbyist. I heart JTAG thrown around quite a bit by developers and the guys who are like... fanatics about knowing all the details so that they can act snobby to the rest of the community - even though they don't *really* know shit about technology. :)

Sat Mar 13 2021 07:24:32 EST from Nurb432

Well. that is one version, that converts USB to JTAG.. But not everyone uses USB of course.

At least for Altera, as xilinx calls theirs something a bit more professional sounding :) "Platform Cable"

Fri Mar 12 2021 14:02:16 EST from ParanoidDelusions

So, otherwise known as a "USB Blaster?"

Wed Mar 10 2021 14:13:03 EST from Nurb432

Basically a hard-coded serial port that bypasses most of the electronics. For diagnostics and programming.

Message #4671206

Sat, 13 Mar 2021 12:24:32 -0000

Well. that is one version, that converts USB to JTAG.. But not everyone uses USB of course.

At least for Altera, as xilinx calls theirs something a bit more professional sounding :) "Platform Cable"

Fri Mar 12 2021 14:02:16 EST from ParanoidDelusions

So, otherwise known as a "USB Blaster?"

Wed Mar 10 2021 14:13:03 EST from Nurb432

Basically a hard-coded serial port that bypasses most of the electronics. For diagnostics and programming.

Message #4671091

Fri, 12 Mar 2021 19:02:16 -0000

So, otherwise known as a "USB Blaster?"

Wed Mar 10 2021 14:13:03 EST from Nurb432

Basically a hard-coded serial port that bypasses most of the electronics. For diagnostics and programming.

Message #4670802

Wed, 10 Mar 2021 19:13:03 -0000

Basically a hard-coded serial port that bypasses most of the electronics. For diagnostics and programming.

Message #4670677

Wed, 10 Mar 2021 04:47:52 -0000

What is JTAG?

I don't actually know enough about FPGA. I get the whole concept of field programmable gate arrays being able to reconfigure gates to replicate physical hardware architecture...

But beyond that - everyone in the retro community acts like, "What, you don't know about JTAG? Noob!"

And I suspect about 90 % of them know about as much about JTAG as an 80's metalhead who read Tiger Beat but had never actually heard Metallica knew about speed metal.

You can count me in the other 10% who went, "What the eff is a Metallica? Moltey Crue and Def Leppard rock, though!"

Tue Mar 09 2021 18:21:29 EST from Nurb432

All the pieces are there to create a risc-ish system now in FPGA out at opencores, and of course other projects. And you can find reasonably priced ( under 500 ) boards that could handle it and be useful. Not saying that an umbrella project to coordinate everything and bring it together would be a bad thing, but if you *want* to do it you can.

Speaking of, i still need to flash that Pano i got with a z80 core + cp/m Just been too lazy to open it up to get to the JTAG port

Message #4670649

Tue, 09 Mar 2021 23:21:29 -0000

All the pieces are there to create a risc-ish system now in FPGA out at opencores, and of course other projects. And you can find reasonably priced ( under 500 ) boards that could handle it and be useful. Not saying that an umbrella project to coordinate everything and bring it together would be a bad thing, but if you *want* to do it you can.

Speaking of, i still need to flash that Pano i got with a z80 core + cp/m Just been too lazy to open it up to get to the JTAG port

Message #4670643

Tue, 09 Mar 2021 21:38:48 -0000

>I remember that, he did sort of vanish. It gets weirder. A few days after we had this conversation, he posted the following: "This project is now archived, due to Raptor Engineering Releases Kestrel, The bFirst Open-HDL/Open Firmware BMCb, which I read on 2021 Feb 09. I cannot risk legal action from Raptor Engineering, especially considering how much our respective projects overlap. b Samuel A. Falvo II, 2021 Feb 09" Same name, many of the same design details, completely different purpose. An open spec BMC is a useful idea, but it's not the same thing as a fully open spec general purpose computer. It was an ambitious project, but it looked doable. How might one begin such a project today? If the objective is to build a general purpose computer that anyone can assemble from royalty-free components, emphasizing that aspect over and above any need for extreme speed, what would it look like? One might consider something ridiculously simple like an I2C bus (maximum 5 Mbps and 127 devices) with each peripheral device containing some onboard intelligence to do its job. This would end up being almost exactly like the design of the Commodore 64 serial bus, but a lot faster. Devices could be attached modularly, using a common format to exchange data over the bus.

Message #4649239

Thu, 04 Feb 2021 05:10:24 -0000

That is awesome sauce. :)

Wed Feb 03 2021 15:45:29 EST from Nurb432

For you Amiga fans ( you know who you are ) ran across this today

https://taws.ch/WB.html

Message #4649216

Wed, 03 Feb 2021 20:45:29 -0000

For you Amiga fans ( you know who you are ) ran across this today

https://taws.ch/WB.html

Message #4648808

Mon, 01 Feb 2021 04:20:26 -0000

So, I've been um... Manpillows Deep in the V4 since it arrived on Thursday.

I had a friend, Samir - who designed chips for Intel. Evidently Intel does a lot of collaboration with Siemens.

You could get Samir going by mentioning "German efficiency." It would create an inevitable rant about,

"The Germans suck at documentation!" Every time, it was a 30 minute sermon about how they believe that out-of-context technical documents with no explanation of their relevance to actual real world application constitute "documentation". That when told that they didn't have documentation, they would respond, "yes we do, you must not have read it," or imply that it wasn't the documentation that was lacking, it was the reader's experience with understanding the documentation.

I always found it vaguely... racist. I mean - he was angry at ALL German people - not just Siemens - and pretty much bluntly said this was an epidemic with EVERY German he ever dealt with.

Message #4648717

Sun, 31 Jan 2021 15:33:30 -0000

I remember that, he did sort of vanish.

Message #4648632

Sun, 31 Jan 2021 01:19:33 -0000

I have thought for a while that the real cyberpunk counter-oligarchy insurgency of hackers will occur with cobbled together retro-machines.

They're machines you can understand, down to the registers. If there is a component on the logic board that doesn't belong, a relative layperson can recognize it. The code is small and concise enough a single person can review it - and it operates through channels that seem like backwaters to the all seeing eye of Government. It flies under the radar.

A fellow who drops in here occasionally was working on a computer project built to those exact standards.

https://kestrelcomputer.github.io/kestrel/

I don't know whatever came of it, as both he and the project went silent about three years ago. He was using a RISC-V processor surrounded by some FPGA logic and a custom operating system. It looks like a very cool project. If anyone ever manages to figure out where he went, tell him that there are some new folks on Uncensored who would love to hear from him.

Message #4648471

Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:24:00 -0000

Allot yourself a chunk of time. It went longer than I like them to go - but I had a lot of thoughts going on.

Fri Jan 29 2021 13:02:45 EST from Nurb432

will have to check it out this weekend.

Message #4648429

Fri, 29 Jan 2021 18:02:45 -0000

will have to check it out this weekend.

Fri Jan 29 2021 10:29:59 EST from ParanoidDelusions

My latest blog, on the V4 68080 FPGA Amiga computer...

https://donovancolbert.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-apollo-v4-future-of-amiga.html

Message #4648399

Fri, 29 Jan 2021 15:29:59 -0000

My latest blog, on the V4 68080 FPGA Amiga computer...

https://donovancolbert.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-apollo-v4-future-of-amiga.html

Message #4648265

Thu, 28 Jan 2021 19:55:58 -0000

just read today that Xilinx opened in 1984. i did NOT know it was that early.

Message #4647439

Fri, 22 Jan 2021 15:18:21 -0000

The sudden rapid increase in international shipments along with domestic shipments getting *worse* could be a troubling sign, actually.

Yeah. They've done some amazing things with FPGA - but, custom FPGA solutions *are* expensive.

I have an FPGA Colecovision, the Colectorvision, that was $199.

I've got an FPGA 1541-II "disk drive" that was $250.

This is why the MiSTer is such a bargain. The DE-10 Nano is an FPGA education board that is price subsidized by Intel. The MiSTer is a *project* that is built off that board. It cuts about $200 off building it from a custom FPGA.

But... this Vampire thing is incredible. It takes the Amiga and evolves it to the point where it is possible to do some modern applications. I wouldn't say it is on par with a modern intel Core or even ARM CPU - but... it is the closest thing out there that you could probably use for some "daily driver" roles.

I'll post a full review on my blog and website once

Fri Jan 22 2021 09:19:36 EST from Nurb432

Sounds a bit like the firebee ( Atari )

Tho they are using the FPGA for 'peripheral' chips like blitter and sound, but a true CPU for well, the CPU. A coldfire, which my understanding was to be a more modern 68k series. thought about getting one more than once, but they are also expensive. Far more than i want to spend on a toy i may use once in a blue moon.

Shipping... same problem i have. however, i bought a new e-ink reader ( go figure :) ) and it came from mainland china in ONE day.. I watched the updates as it moved, and i could not believe it. Mainland, to HK, to Alaska, then to my door in the Midwest in a day. Normally even customs takes longer than that ...

Message #4647429

Fri, 22 Jan 2021 14:19:36 -0000

Sounds a bit like the firebee ( Atari )

Tho they are using the FPGA for 'peripheral' chips like blitter and sound, but a true CPU for well, the CPU. A coldfire, which my understanding was to be a more modern 68k series. thought about getting one more than once, but they are also expensive. Far more than i want to spend on a toy i may use once in a blue moon.

Shipping... same problem i have. however, i bought a new e-ink reader ( go figure :) ) and it came from mainland china in ONE day.. I watched the updates as it moved, and i could not believe it. Mainland, to HK, to Alaska, then to my door in the Midwest in a day. Normally even customs takes longer than that ...

Message #4647398

Fri, 22 Jan 2021 02:50:12 -0000

Ordered a Vampire V4 Standalone from Germany on the 19th. Got it here tonight. As a merchant, I have trouble getting stuff delivered to New York in 5 days through USPS, and shipments from Europe usually take 11 to 18 days. Not sure what magic UPS is doing with Germany - but I was very pleased.

The device itself is pretty awesome. It is EXPENSIVE, even before the Euro conversion - for a machine dedicated to 68k platforms. It IS FGPA - but the core is designed and dedicated to 68k recreation - and is actually set up as a kind of 68080 prototype. I'm not sure of all the technical details - if it would be possible to have it run non 68k cores, if the 68080 core could be run on the MiSTer or other FPGA devices - but it is a very unique thing in the Amiga/FPGA world. In the past, they've made accelerators - and as the FPGA core replaces the genuine 68k CPU, it is contentious if those are still "real" Amigas or just FPGA devices in Amiga cases. At any rate - it is pretty cool, right out of the box.

Message #4647290

Thu, 21 Jan 2021 18:31:16 -0000

Speaking of, in our change meeting earlier today they announced that we are finally puling flash off machines at the enterprise level. Even up to a month ago our periodic security training sessions required flash ( go figure, of all things.. )

Message #4647234

Thu, 21 Jan 2021 15:03:18 -0000

LOL.

"This machine runs mission critical applications for our enterprise. Whaddayamean, "End of lifed?!?"

Message #4647224

Thu, 21 Jan 2021 14:24:21 -0000

having some internet issues today, but our support team wont help.

Message #4646811

Tue, 19 Jan 2021 13:02:27 -0000

Even worse, we have to deal with legislation nonsense. Power struggles are real and hurt everyone.

Mon Jan 18 2021 11:54:52 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Irrational corporate decisions drive me nuts.

Message #4646653

Mon, 18 Jan 2021 16:54:52 -0000

Irrational corporate decisions drive me nuts.

Mon Jan 18 2021 09:50:13 EST from Nurb432

Funny part is everyone had to pay for a license for office PRO, so everyone had a legal right to have it. but we banned its install unless you could come up with a "we will fail without it" and then you had to agree to migrate away from it. And it wasn't for any rational reason. Just " we dont want to support their creations ".. Um, technically we didnt anyway. ( we used to, before a consolation of IT across business units but after that, no. ).

But it did bring in business for our in-hose dev team, which (over)charges for their work. ( ya, its mostly funny money, but still has to be budgeted/funded/etc )

Message #4646636

Mon, 18 Jan 2021 14:50:13 -0000

Funny part is everyone had to pay for a license for office PRO, so everyone had a legal right to have it. but we banned its install unless you could come up with a "we will fail without it" and then you had to agree to migrate away from it. And it wasn't for any rational reason. Just " we dont want to support their creations ".. Um, technically we didnt anyway. ( we used to, before a consolation of IT across business units but after that, no. ).

But it did bring in business for our in-hose dev team, which (over)charges for their work. ( ya, its mostly funny money, but still has to be budgeted/funded/etc )

Sun Jan 17 2021 17:36:31 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Pretty sure I used to be the resident Access expert at the office, until they banned me. :D :D :D

Sun Jan 17 2021 17:11:15 EST from Nurb432

You dont need to learn any code to get started. just take it slow.

I used to be the resident access expert at the office. Until they banned its use.

Message #4646470

Sun, 17 Jan 2021 22:36:31 -0000

Pretty sure I used to be the resident Access expert at the office, until they banned me. :D :D :D

Sun Jan 17 2021 17:11:15 EST from Nurb432

You dont need to learn any code to get started. just take it slow.

I used to be the resident access expert at the office. Until they banned its use.

Message #4646469

Sun, 17 Jan 2021 22:11:15 -0000

You dont need to learn any code to get started. just take it slow.

I used to be the resident access expert at the office. Until they banned its use.

Sun Jan 17 2021 12:30:19 EST from ParanoidDelusions

.vba in Access and learning Scratch3.

There is my development/programming CV.

:)

Sun Jan 17 2021 07:21:32 EST from Nurb432

Grab something like Gadot and make one? Of if you want something immersive: OpenSimulator.

Lots of both paid and free assets for both, and of course you can do either with any asset you create.

Sat Jan 16 2021 17:46:55 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Message #4646406

Sun, 17 Jan 2021 17:30:19 -0000

.vba in Access and learning Scratch3.

There is my development/programming CV.

:)

Sun Jan 17 2021 07:21:32 EST from Nurb432

Grab something like Gadot and make one? Of if you want something immersive: OpenSimulator.

Lots of both paid and free assets for both, and of course you can do either with any asset you create.

Sat Jan 16 2021 17:46:55 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Message #4646348

Sun, 17 Jan 2021 12:21:32 -0000

Grab something like Gadot and make one? Of if you want something immersive: OpenSimulator.

Lots of both paid and free assets for both, and of course you can do either with any asset you create.

Sat Jan 16 2021 17:46:55 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I've seen those. There are some that are approaching what I want. I really see an engine - and you can buy rules *and* adventure modules that plug into that engine - and it could be multiplayer or single player, or single player playing multiple characters. Vampire and Werewolf game? Post Apocalyptic game? Sword and sorcery game? Super Hero game? Sure. Different connected modules within that rule set? Sure.

I just don't want it to do TOO much. a hex map with graphics that look hand drawn on it, like a Tolkein map. Not a realistic depiction of the city - an icon of the city, or the lake. Make it look like a cloth map. Make it feel like I'm sitting down at actual game materials. Don't immerse me in YOUR vision of the game world, let my mind create the immersion.

Sat Jan 16 2021 07:13:02 EST from darknetuser

Probably not what you are thinking about, but there are online services that simulate maps and tables, if you want to gather with your friends and play some regular RPG online.

In fact Hasbro has a subscription based service for playing D&D such way, I think.

I have never used these, though. I'd rather play a heavily narative game over voice char with a dice bot than deploy some monstruous application for simulating figurine movements.

Message #4646229

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 22:46:55 -0000

I've seen those. There are some that are approaching what I want. I really see an engine - and you can buy rules *and* adventure modules that plug into that engine - and it could be multiplayer or single player, or single player playing multiple characters. Vampire and Werewolf game? Post Apocalyptic game? Sword and sorcery game? Super Hero game? Sure. Different connected modules within that rule set? Sure.

I just don't want it to do TOO much. a hex map with graphics that look hand drawn on it, like a Tolkein map. Not a realistic depiction of the city - an icon of the city, or the lake. Make it look like a cloth map. Make it feel like I'm sitting down at actual game materials. Don't immerse me in YOUR vision of the game world, let my mind create the immersion.

Sat Jan 16 2021 07:13:02 EST from darknetuser

Probably not what you are thinking about, but there are online services that simulate maps and tables, if you want to gather with your friends and play some regular RPG online.

In fact Hasbro has a subscription based service for playing D&D such way, I think.

I have never used these, though. I'd rather play a heavily narative game over voice char with a dice bot than deploy some monstruous application for simulating figurine movements.

Message #4646113

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 12:33:26 -0000

Good for you. I did until the day i dropped "dos" ( well, i was using desqviewX by that point ). It was DRDos, but i cant remember if caldera had bought it by then or not.

Neat thing is that DVX would even run windows apps, across the network. Back when only unix people knew what that meant.

Fri Jan 15 2021 22:55:16 EST from cmonkey

I still use deskview.

Fri Jan 15 2021 13:57:49 ESTfrom Nurb432

For me on x86 it was DesQview, then DesQview/X. I avoided "windows" as much as possible until NT4. And my go to productivity app was Framework.

On the Atari, was of course vastly different.

Message #4646106

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 12:13:02 -0000
>I do also hold the belief that there is a huge missed opportunity to >create an engine that really simulates a traditional pen and paper >FRP gaming experience, down to realistic depictions of custom metal >figurines and game boards. Probably not what you are thinking about, but there are online services that simulate maps and tables, if you want to gather with your friends and play some regular RPG online. In fact Hasbro has a subscription based service for playing D&D such way, I think. I have never used these, though. I'd rather play a heavily narative game over voice char with a dice bot than deploy some monstruous application for simulating figurine movements.

Message #4646030

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 04:32:24 -0000

Really. Not to try and poach users - but I'd like to establish The Sanitarium/The Amiga Archives - as a retro platforming destination. Ig already has his niche. I already have a good deal of Retro gaming content published there.

https://secure.wallofhate.com

Fri Jan 15 2021 23:22:03 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Wow. This thread is fascinating - and... it should really be on MY BBS... which has a much stronger focus on Retrogaming. :)

Message #4646029

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 04:30:46 -0000

Oh yeah. Vampire V4. I actually have no idea what I'm going to do with one. I am not a developer, I've got a MiSTer that will do RTG... There is nothing a V4 really buys me that I don't already have.

And it is a boatload of money.

But it is kind of like the Pi400. In two years when some awesome project comes out and the device is no longer available - I don't want to be paying scalper prices on eBay for one.

And... eff it - I want to support development. A 68080 based Amiga, even if it is just a curiosity for me. I got the Coffin .vhd running on FS-UAE on my Pi400 now. It looks totally cool - and I feel like it absolutely takes the Amiga to the next level - but I'm not sure I want to put the time into figuring out how to exploit what it can do. I don't know what I could possibly do with all that power on an *Amiga*...

That I can't already do easier on an OS X or Wintel box.

But... I'm open minded. Show me. If I could drop modern OSes *

Message #4646026

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 04:22:03 -0000

Wow. This thread is fascinating - and... it should really be on MY BBS... which has a much stronger focus on Retrogaming. :)

So... I'm going to see how many of the posts I remember... I guess I could open another window... the web and multi-tasking - but I'm going to try to do this old-school retro style. It seems appropriate.

So many posts.

ANYHOW...

So... I don't draw a distinction in my own application between the user-space and the admin-space as far as my experience goes. They're interchangeable. Maybe that is the Windows advantage - Linux is FANTASTIC in the admin space, once you get a grasp on it, but always lacks in the USER space. OS X is FANTASTIC in the USER space, and doesn't take any real effort to master, but the admin space of OS X is terrible - like a *nix that got kicked in the nuts. No matter how ROOT you are, APPLE is "King Root" of your system.

Windows just rides the middle. Or did. They tore out Tlist, they tore out... i

Fri Jan 15 2021 23:05:10 EST from cmonkey

Just in case anyone still plays around with older Windows, here is a nice link (in case you haven't already been there).

http://retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.com/

Message #4646025

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 04:05:10 -0000

Just in case anyone still plays around with older Windows, here is a nice link (in case you haven't already been there).

http://retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.com/

Message #4646022

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 03:55:16 -0000

I still use deskview.

Fri Jan 15 2021 13:57:49 ESTfrom Nurb432

For me on x86 it was DesQview, then DesQview/X. I avoided "windows" as much as possible until NT4. And my go to productivity app was Framework.

On the Atari, was of course vastly different.

Message #4646019

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 03:52:59 -0000

One of the most pleasant things about Windows, pre NT, was that you could run more than one dos box. Back then I could have described so many things I didn't like about Windows. But I really didn't know enough to simplify the complaints with the one fact, I was just further from the hardware.

I really thought hard about purchasing a Vampire V4 Standalone. It really is the closest to what I've had in mind. The power is just about right. That they provide a fork of the Atari OS, as an alternative, does sweeten the deal.

The home brew and demo scene is fascinating. There are a couple videos floating around of SymbOS (Amstrad/MSX/Enterprise) that blow my mind. The home brew Speccy systems can be fascinating. Over in Russia they have a nice Pentagon/Scorpion clone with an actual z80 family mpu, real sound chips, and the rest is established on FPGA. I'm not a fan of the GR8BIT, but it is neat. A home brew MSX with more beef and accessories would be nice. But then I'm basically back on dos, with a smaller instruction set to remember. But I advise avoiding 64k pc demos. If you start watching them, eventually you realize its just porn.

CP/M really is quite amazing. For all that it can do, you can still review all the code; feeling somewhat confident you know the whole picture. I actually don't have 100% first-hand knowledge of that. But skimming through it, experience suggests you would. The Enhanced Drdos project worked over Opendos to compile with Watcom C. I've thought about seeing if I could rework it to build with something simpler, like Desmet C. It's too bad they didn't release the code for their extended memory manager and multitasker. Since they are tied together, you can only multitask inside of 64mb. It would have been interesting if Dr/OpenDos had progressed further. The child of CP/M could live on.

Message #4645995

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 01:23:40 -0000

I was speaking from an admin point of view too, not just visual GUI stuff. W2K brought a lot of tools for system management too.

On my own, there is nothing i need that requires windows, so i'm good, and have been for a couple of decades now. In the case of my ARM boards ( there is that arm stuff again :) ) i'm sort of locked into Linux on some, due to NVIDIA support. So there BSD isn't a viable option, but at least its not windows :)

For the office, i'm down to 2 apps that need windows. ( the main thing i support, and a reporting tool.. ). but with luck that ends in a few months and we can finally upgrade out of the need for IE. The reporting tool there are other options, if i want to go thru the trouble of 10 redoing years of legacy work. And i just might.

Fri Jan 15 2021 18:37:43 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I mean, Me, Vista and Windows 8 were just roadbumps... I used them all...

But XP was nice and so was Windows 7. Windows 10... well, all the OSes kind of suck these days. Lately, I've been leaning more towards making Linux one of my daily drivers, though. Just my general trend away from the main thoroughfares of the Information Superhighway. There isn't a lot I do anymore that *requires* a commercial OS.

Fri Jan 15 2021 15:49:19 EST from Nurb432

And i do agree w2k was the best Microsoft did. Took them a long time to get there ( with some stolen help from IBM ) and its been downhill ever since.

I was with OS/2 for a bit and we used it at GM and ford both, but it wasn't what i wanted, so ended up finding alternatives. Other than BSD of course, one i liked a lot was vSTA. But once the web hit the masses, a lot of that stuff died instant deaths. ( i wonder how Andy is doing these days )

Message #4645957

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 23:37:43 -0000

I mean, Me, Vista and Windows 8 were just roadbumps... I used them all...

But XP was nice and so was Windows 7. Windows 10... well, all the OSes kind of suck these days. Lately, I've been leaning more towards making Linux one of my daily drivers, though. Just my general trend away from the main thoroughfares of the Information Superhighway. There isn't a lot I do anymore that *requires* a commercial OS.

Fri Jan 15 2021 15:49:19 EST from Nurb432

And i do agree w2k was the best Microsoft did. Took them a long time to get there ( with some stolen help from IBM ) and its been downhill ever since.

I was with OS/2 for a bit and we used it at GM and ford both, but it wasn't what i wanted, so ended up finding alternatives. Other than BSD of course, one i liked a lot was vSTA. But once the web hit the masses, a lot of that stuff died instant deaths. ( i wonder how Andy is doing these days )

Message #4645911

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 20:49:19 -0000

And i do agree w2k was the best Microsoft did. Took them a long time to get there ( with some stolen help from IBM ) and its been downhill ever since.

I was with OS/2 for a bit and we used it at GM and ford both, but it wasn't what i wanted, so ended up finding alternatives. Other than BSD of course, one i liked a lot was vSTA. But once the web hit the masses, a lot of that stuff died instant deaths. ( i wonder how Andy is doing these days )

Message #4645910

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 20:45:27 -0000

Perhaps not a native 'key command' but there were tons and tons of shells to run.

Fri Jan 15 2021 14:15:47 EST from ParanoidDelusions

One of the things I always disliked about the ST was that there was no CLI, to TOS/GEM. Kind of like the Mac Classic OS - I felt that I couldn't get properly "under the hood" if I needed to.

I wonder why it feels that way. It is really just "presentation"... but there are some things I just prefer to do from a CLI interface - it feels like it is kind of related to my complaint about eInk vs. traditional print. In the command line, the files, file locations and hierarchies feel more tangible - and it is less cluttered generally being able to type out a command, for example, to copy things with a wildcard from the present directory to a different directory. You generally have finer granular control over files in a CLI. For example, the file I had lost among 15TB of storage - it is possible I could have set up a search for it using a GUI - but grep was was more efficient at locating the file.

There is an element of that too... a CLI *is* closer to bare metal, because there is no abstraction layer - your window manager and desktop graphics, eating up resources.

Fri Jan 15 2021 14:05:42 EST from ParanoidDelusions

On the Atari, was of course vastly different.

Thu Jan 14 2021 21:39:20 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Message #4645894

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 19:15:47 -0000

One of the things I always disliked about the ST was that there was no CLI, to TOS/GEM. Kind of like the Mac Classic OS - I felt that I couldn't get properly "under the hood" if I needed to.

I wonder why it feels that way. It is really just "presentation"... but there are some things I just prefer to do from a CLI interface - it feels like it is kind of related to my complaint about eInk vs. traditional print. In the command line, the files, file locations and hierarchies feel more tangible - and it is less cluttered generally being able to type out a command, for example, to copy things with a wildcard from the present directory to a different directory. You generally have finer granular control over files in a CLI. For example, the file I had lost among 15TB of storage - it is possible I could have set up a search for it using a GUI - but grep was was more efficient at locating the file.

There is an element of that too... a CLI *is* closer to bare metal, because there is no abstraction layer - your window manager and desktop graphics, eating up resources.

Fri Jan 15 2021 14:05:42 EST from ParanoidDelusions

On the Atari, was of course vastly different.

Thu Jan 14 2021 21:39:20 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Message #4645892

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 19:05:42 -0000

Most of the people who dislike Windows had a dislike for it from the very start, I've noticed. Had a friend who went OS/2 Warp to Linux back in the day.

Almost everyone else went Windows - though. Just easier than paddling upstream.

NT4 was the first "real" iteration of Windows, for sure - but even then - it was a PITA for casual use. It wasn't until W2k Pro delivered Direct X that the NT and consumer fork of Windows started to converge... bringing NTFS to consumer systems and the leisure benefits of regular Windows to the Pro platforms. Oddly, going forward - that made workstation variants of "Pro" kind of redundant. Corporate desktops went to XP, instead of a W2kX pro...

I think as far as commercial marketing is concerned, they would have been better off to keep a consumer and a professional fork clearly defined.

Fri Jan 15 2021 13:57:49 EST from Nurb432

For me on x86 it was DesQview, then DesQview/X. I avoided "windows" as much as possible until NT4. And my go to productivity app was Framework.

On the Atari, was of course vastly different.

Thu Jan 14 2021 21:39:20 EST from ParanoidDelusions

So... an interesting thing - is that for those of us retro enough - when Windows originally rode on top of DOS, many of us disliked the limitations of Windows and spent most of our time dropped back into DOS - in particular those of us who had come from systems like CP/M which were also CLI operating systems. Amiga OS was really a prototype for a system with a GUI that required CLI for many of the most technical challenges in operating the system.

I

Message #4645889

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 18:57:49 -0000

For me on x86 it was DesQview, then DesQview/X. I avoided "windows" as much as possible until NT4. And my go to productivity app was Framework.

On the Atari, was of course vastly different.

Thu Jan 14 2021 21:39:20 EST from ParanoidDelusions

So... an interesting thing - is that for those of us retro enough - when Windows originally rode on top of DOS, many of us disliked the limitations of Windows and spent most of our time dropped back into DOS - in particular those of us who had come from systems like CP/M which were also CLI operating systems. Amiga OS was really a prototype for a system with a GUI that required CLI for many of the most technical challenges in operating the system.

I

Message #4645767

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 02:39:20 -0000

So... an interesting thing - is that for those of us retro enough - when Windows originally rode on top of DOS, many of us disliked the limitations of Windows and spent most of our time dropped back into DOS - in particular those of us who had come from systems like CP/M which were also CLI operating systems. Amiga OS was really a prototype for a system with a GUI that required CLI for many of the most technical challenges in operating the system.

I do see what you're saying about finding, fixing or creating code that does what you want has the same sort of reward principle to gaming. When I was learning VBA for Access - I absolutely got consumed in the challenge of solving the problems with the scripts, and the reward of seeing a problem and realizing how to fix it. The breakthrough of being able to read a line of code and understand what it was telling the machine to do was also significant.

It has been quite commercial for a long time, as well. Time/Warner purchasing Atari, th
The homebrew scene, with 40 years of experience, is doing incredible things with old technology, and a lot of it is designed toward showing that the hardware still can be used in practical terms. In particular the Amiga scene is still very active in doing things way beyond gaming with the platform. FPGA is a leading driver of that. I'm in the process of purchasing a Vampire V4. It is basically the intent to design a 68080 processor - a modern generation of Motorola 68xxx capable of doing things that modern PCs can do, while providing backwards support for the 68xxx family of processors. It may turn out to be a folly. But it might be an interesting alternate fork in the PC CPU road.

But I agree - it is much more difficult to hide something malicious in a machine that can only access 64k of code at a time. :)

I am enjoying the conversation, too.

Thu Jan 14 2021 20:01:41 EST from cmonkey

At some point I think getting really bugged out that some script or line of code isn't doing what you think it should, provides a hard to come back from replacement for games. Unless you do that for a living. Then games can probably still be quite an escape, as the learning is repetitious and only rewarding as a paycheck or met deadline.

If I was so inclined, I think I would get more joy out of making a game, then playing one.

So after years of using windows one may be compelled to use Linux. Then comes the CLI. At first people struggle to find a GUI for rather than just use whatever command line solution they are provided. Like the command line is taking convenience away from you. However with enough time, you end up needing to use the command line more and more. Its like a *nix trap. Eventually one day you turn around and the CLI is the convenience you prefer and wouldn't want to sacrifice. The CLI ends up being emblematic of the reason you were compelled to use Linux anyway. Windows may provide a prompt as well, but there is so much more in the way of getting the control you have with *nix.

That initial interest, in user interfaces, has had time to evolve. And it has clearly spread to games, television, shopping, banking, etc.

I like the BSD systems too. A fan of the underdog (NetBSD).

Internet, Games, and Social Media, as they are today, are completely commercial. I have no problem with that. If they need to make bloated software and overly complex hardware, so that only the right people can be behind the commercial technological curtain, fine. Its just too bad that not enough people "want" to use an alternative. So truly public use options have become unknown and akin to an inconvenience.

The retro scene provides the simple tech. But the drive isn't to make the hardware usable in a practical way. Obviously because it seems too impractical. That's where my disappointment comes in. We really could do a lot more, a lot faster, with a lot less (power). But not if you are riding on the moving target of commerce.

It sometimes seems like the only way to control the bloat, is if the platform can't handle bloated. As was somewhat mentioned in an earier post, the way tech is used "against" digital freedom just doesn't often work well with old tech. Its hard for someone to penetrate a system that has just enough power for me to do what I need to do, while I'm using it. I will notice that you are there.

I'm glad you replied.

Message #4645757

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 01:01:41 -0000

At some point I think getting really bugged out that some script or line of code isn't doing what you think it should, provides a hard to come back from replacement for games. Unless you do that for a living. Then games can probably still be quite an escape, as the learning is repetitious and only rewarding as a paycheck or met deadline.

If I was so inclined, I think I would get more joy out of making a game, then playing one.

I didn't really have a computer back when BBSes were a thing. So I only had the observation of others getting to play demos/shareware that they pulled from eather. Now, like you, I can see the simplicity and elegance that was.

So we may, at least in part, be similar kids here. In about the 90s there was a lot of interest in how shaping technology shaped behaviour. Even in those retro tools, that some of us may yearn for now. An example is the graphical path to reaching an objective (like control panel) and the categorical location of the setting you wish to adjust. With repetition this implements a mental structure for problem solving.

So after years of using windows one may be compelled to use Linux. Then comes the CLI. At first people struggle to find a GUI for rather than just use whatever command line solution they are provided. Like the command line is taking convenience away from you. However with enough time, you end up needing to use the command line more and more. Its like a *nix trap. Eventually one day you turn around and the CLI is the convenience you prefer and wouldn't want to sacrifice. The CLI ends up being emblematic of the reason you were compelled to use Linux anyway. Windows may provide a prompt as well, but there is so much more in the way of getting the control you have with *nix.

That initial interest, in user interfaces, has had time to evolve. And it has clearly spread to games, television, shopping, banking, etc.

I like the BSD systems too. A fan of the underdog (NetBSD).

Internet, Games, and Social Media, as they are today, are completely commercial. I have no problem with that. If they need to make bloated software and overly complex hardware, so that only the right people can be behind the commercial technological curtain, fine. Its just too bad that not enough people "want" to use an alternative. So truly public use options have become unknown and akin to an inconvenience.

The retro scene provides the simple tech. But the drive isn't to make the hardware usable in a practical way. Obviously because it seems too impractical. That's where my disappointment comes in. We really could do a lot more, a lot faster, with a lot less (power). But not if you are riding on the moving target of commerce.

It sometimes seems like the only way to control the bloat, is if the platform can't handle bloated. As was somewhat mentioned in an earier post, the way tech is used "against" digital freedom just doesn't often work well with old tech. Its hard for someone to penetrate a system that has just enough power for me to do what I need to do, while I'm using it. I will notice that you are there.

I'm glad you replied.

Message #4645660

Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:41:21 -0000

You know, as a grumpy old man gamer, I'm not opposed to younger generations developing an appreciation or love for the things of my era - and actually think it is a great thing. What annoys me is when a younger generation shows up, accuses my generation of gatekeeping some thing, accuses the thing of having problematic themes or values that need to be erased, retroactively, from the community, and then claims they love the thing. Oh - and then tries to tell me I understand less about the thing than they do.

But I think that is amplified by social media. I think most people who get into a phenomenon directly associated with a previous generation tend to do it with respect and admiration - and they want to hear about what it was really like from "old-timers", they kind of wish they could have experienced it directly, in its actual moment, rather than as a retro-experience trying to recreate that moment in time.

Also, I think the younger you ar

Thu Jan 14 2021 11:18:12 EST from darknetuser

cmonkey, there is so much to reply to that I am skipping the quote in order to save room :)

I agree that earlier games were more engaging. I think there is a golden spot somewhere in the early 90s, where computer power was high enough to do complex things, but low enough that developers couldn't count on high quality graphics to make players ignore lame gameplay.

If you haven't watched If Doom was DOne Today or If Quake Was Done Today, I recommend you to. It puts things into perspective. Modern games have so much stuff goping on that is not the game, so to speak. Kinda sad.

You can count me as one of those kids who are interested in retro tech but never actually lived it. Fun thing is I don't consider myself a nostalgic or retro weirdo. I just appreciate how something like a BBS, an IRC network, or some videogame from the 80s works better for me than what seem to be the modern alternatives.

I got started toying with BSDs because moder

Message #4645658

Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:16:19 -0000

With the right ROM it would be mostly compatible, and would run faster. So good enough for me if i wanted to do emulation.

Something i had forgot about, back in the old days i did have a PCditto cart and a gemulator cart on one of my STs. But it wasn't for 'retro' it was for 'current work'. Gemulator actually ran faster than most apples of the day, and im thinking PCditto was the same as an XT. ( didnt really have a PC to compare side by side, but it felt about the same )

i had access to some macs at the office they were tossing due to being broke, so the ROMs were free..

Wed Jan 13 2021 20:18:36 EST from ParanoidDelusions

It wouldn't - do it as well as FPGA - but it might do it well enough to satisfy your itch, if you wanted to go there...

And that is all that matters. ;)

I put WinUAE on the Pi400 last night and it made me decide the 18 GB stock card isn't going to do it for me, so I've got a 128GB card on the way.

Even though, I already have a lot of Amiga systems and systems running emulators - and no immediate desire to play any Amiga games. I've got a vague itch to play some classic FRP that will absorb me and keep me offline for 2 or 3 weeks. I was doing that for a while - and it was awesome. Then I ran out of titles. Or ideas, anyhow.

Wed Jan 13 2021 12:15:31 EST from Nurb432

If i wanted to go 'there', having hatari auto start or something on my pinebookpro would do it as well as FPGA and is in a nice pretty laptop case already.

I still like the idea of the real thing. Even tho i know ill never have one of them :)

Message #4645633

Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:18:12 -0000
cmonkey, there is so much to reply to that I am skipping the quote in order to save room :) I agree that earlier games were more engaging. I think there is a golden spot somewhere in the early 90s, where computer power was high enough to do complex things, but low enough that developers couldn't count on high quality graphics to make players ignore lame gameplay. If you haven't watched If Doom was DOne Today or If Quake Was Done Today, I recommend you to. It puts things into perspective. Modern games have so much stuff goping on that is not the game, so to speak. Kinda sad. You can count me as one of those kids who are interested in retro tech but never actually lived it. Fun thing is I don't consider myself a nostalgic or retro weirdo. I just appreciate how something like a BBS, an IRC network, or some videogame from the 80s works better for me than what seem to be the modern alternatives. I got started toying with BSDs because modern Linux distributions were becoming bloated unstructured messes. Then I discovered I liked the way BSDs are structured and then I realized BSDs have not changed *that* much in decades. They are a blast from the 70s in a modern package. It comes to show that designs were better thought about earlier, when tools you could find in systems from the DEC-16 era tools that have survived to this day nearly as-is.

Message #4645525

Thu, 14 Jan 2021 01:22:07 -0000

It was. Every noob to every Commodore group posts the screen shot, and then gets dogpiled by the veteran users for doing it. :)

It is weird. It is like how when someone announces they're leaving a group, the BIGGEST disruption is 1000 users who aren't leaving posting, "Bye Felicia" memes at him.

"You've managed to become MORE annoying than people who announce their departure, by so enthusiastically announcing how no one cares that they're leaving..."

Wed Jan 13 2021 18:55:11 EST from cmonkey

Might have been the John Wick Movies. I thought it might have been Commodores. But looking back, I'm not sure.

Message #4645524

Thu, 14 Jan 2021 01:20:07 -0000

The sword can more efficiently open a can of tuna than a machine gun will, as well. ;)

Wed Jan 13 2021 18:02:05 EST from darknetuser

I think there is a lot of value to simple things.

Message #4645523

Thu, 14 Jan 2021 01:18:36 -0000

It wouldn't - do it as well as FPGA - but it might do it well enough to satisfy your itch, if you wanted to go there...

And that is all that matters. ;)

I put WinUAE on the Pi400 last night and it made me decide the 18 GB stock card isn't going to do it for me, so I've got a 128GB card on the way.

Even though, I already have a lot of Amiga systems and systems running emulators - and no immediate desire to play any Amiga games. I've got a vague itch to play some classic FRP that will absorb me and keep me offline for 2 or 3 weeks. I was doing that for a while - and it was awesome. Then I ran out of titles. Or ideas, anyhow.

Wed Jan 13 2021 12:15:31 EST from Nurb432

If i wanted to go 'there', having hatari auto start or something on my pinebookpro would do it as well as FPGA and is in a nice pretty laptop case already.

I still like the idea of the real thing. Even tho i know ill never have one of them :)

Message #4645514

Thu, 14 Jan 2021 00:31:57 -0000

Long ago I was a gamer. Just can't do it now. Doesn't hold my attention. But I find it a little harder pulling myself away from something like Gallaxian, when I put a retro gaming system together for someone. I think it is the low investment. Somewhere between 96 and 00 you needed to invest more attention into the games. I used to love it, escaping from the fact that life was your job. Those games pulled you in.

I can still manage to load up a FPS just long enough to know I still have it. But there is no lasting attraction. Even while doing it, I'm thinking about the current project I am working on.

I am actually really disappointed in the retro scene. Not so much in the effort that some have put forth in developing replacement parts and clones. But more the sheer nostalgia factor. I wonder if it is an esacape kinda thing. A return to a time when the divide between computer user and lay person meant something. Everyone has a computer in their phone. For many the bar to entry is high, when it comes to rooting your phone. Its a tad easier to put your money down on a PI or FPGA and learn some basic retro.

It seem most of the retro market is aimed at those who have "never been there" and the elite nostalgia mongers.

I'd like to see something a little more lofi available en mass. Not like the RPI. I think FPGA is the best one could hope for. There are a couple of projects out there, but they often don't have ethernet and do have a little linux running all of the background work. The MiSTer is a great device. I can't really knock it. But its not for me. I myself fall short of putting something together that would tickle my sick fancy. So too bad for me.

I'd love to see someone put the NExT186 core in a pacakges with adlib and ethernet.

More to my abilities is looking into the KolibriOS project and seeing how VM86 is supported. Might be cool to trim Kolibri down and make it a Dos Hypervisor. Kinda like DosEmu for Linux. Then I can just port over drivers for some highly available and cheap thin client(s). I would much rather do that, then try to make Dos multitask. Plus it solves the SB16 issue. And on a less powerful device, you should have better performance then with Dosbox-X (DosBox-X because it by default provide seria/parallel/ethernet, like DosEmu).

Anyway, love the place you guys have here.

Message #4645508

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 23:55:11 -0000

Might have been the John Wick Movies. I thought it might have been Commodores. But looking back, I'm not sure.

Mon Jan 11 2021 10:01:21 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I just saw an example of this. Can't think of what it was. Maybe the Russian Pandemic series, "To the Lake." But they used technology while in crisis and I was like, "That right there is game over. They're as good as caught."

Message #4645492

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 23:02:05 -0000
> 2021-01-11 10:01 from ParanoidDelusions >I have thought for a while that the real cyberpunk counter-oligarchy >insurgency of hackers will occur with cobbled together >retro-machines. > >They're machines you can understand, down to the registers. If there >is a component on the logic board that doesn't belong, a relative >layperson can recognize it. The code is small and concise enough a >single person can review it - and it operates through channels that >seem like backwaters to the all seeing eye of Government. It flies >under the radar. I think there is a lot of value to simple things. A machinegun is more effective than a sword, but machineguns have mobile parts, they burn through the barrels, and need a certain knowledge to operate. If you have no clue and don't have spare parts, the machinegun will go out of service much earlier than the sword will. I'd prefer to have a machinegun for fighting zombies, but the power of a tool you can understand and maintain yourself is not to be dismissed. I wish there was more of a bent towards hardware in education. Nowadays, when they teach IT in school, it is software oriented, and when it is digital electronics, it is tailored to pre-assembled chips.

Message #4645419

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 17:15:31 -0000

If i wanted to go 'there', having hatari auto start or something on my pinebookpro would do it as well as FPGA and is in a nice pretty laptop case already.

I still like the idea of the real thing. Even tho i know ill never have one of them :)

Tue Jan 12 2021 20:28:16 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Yeah, they're a white elephant. But, this is where something like a MiSTer and a DIY project can be kitted into something virtually the same. It also isn't out of the question that someone might come up with a Kickstarter type project. You can build virtually an entire Amiga with new parts. Motherboard, case, keyboard... you've just got to source custom chips and be good with a soldering iron.

Tue Jan 12 2021 19:58:33 EST from Nurb432

I guess there is one piece of retro i still would like to have ( but even if i found one of the handful that ever made it outside id never be willing to spend the cash) :

A STBook.

Message #4645257

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 01:28:16 -0000

Yeah, they're a white elephant. But, this is where something like a MiSTer and a DIY project can be kitted into something virtually the same. It also isn't out of the question that someone might come up with a Kickstarter type project. You can build virtually an entire Amiga with new parts. Motherboard, case, keyboard... you've just got to source custom chips and be good with a soldering iron.

Tue Jan 12 2021 19:58:33 EST from Nurb432

I guess there is one piece of retro i still would like to have ( but even if i found one of the handful that ever made it outside id never be willing to spend the cash) :

A STBook.

Message #4645249

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 00:58:33 -0000

I guess there is one piece of retro i still would like to have ( but even if i found one of the handful that ever made it outside id never be willing to spend the cash) :

A STBook.

Message #4644836

Mon, 11 Jan 2021 15:01:21 -0000

I have thought for a while that the real cyberpunk counter-oligarchy insurgency of hackers will occur with cobbled together retro-machines.

They're machines you can understand, down to the registers. If there is a component on the logic board that doesn't belong, a relative layperson can recognize it. The code is small and concise enough a single person can review it - and it operates through channels that seem like backwaters to the all seeing eye of Government. It flies under the radar.

It has limitations. It itself cannot handle complex, secure encryption. But the ways it does provide security are so obscure that it might not be noticed or recognized.

Every time I see a movie where people are using modern technology to evade the surveillance state, it disrupts the suspension of disbelief for me. I go, "They've just revealed themselves to the bad actors looking for them." But if the secret agent pulled out an old Tandy "portable" and hooked it up to an acoustic modem
And - yes... the old stuff is more resilient. You can run it in an environment that is far less "clean", from the AC signal to the physical environment.

Mon Jan 11 2021 06:27:39 EST from darknetuser

It is funny you say that since I have been toying with early minicomputer operating systems as of late.

I think looking at how things used to be done is freakign awesome. Specially when you discover that tools that are widely used today already existed in BSD 2.x

Besides, lots of old stuff I find better than modern stuff. I like some old games much more than I do AAA titles.

I agree that putting a BSD 2.x emulator in a modern SBC, and then placing the whole thing in a PDP-8 case shaped as a DEC minicomputer is a bit silly.

But hey, there is people training in serious sling sharp-shooting and zweihander combat. To each his own I guess.

Message #4644807

Mon, 11 Jan 2021 12:44:10 -0000

I wonder if it was regional. Or at least a factor, not a driving force. At least at the time, it seemed to me that what you preferred ( Apple, Tandy, Commodore, Atari ) had a lot to do with where you lived. Due to us being manipulated by marketing. Around here it was mostly commodore, and i was the Atari odd-ball.

And ya, we grew up in a different time. If you were offended by a game or a magazine ad, you would be laughed at. Rightfully so.

Sun Jan 10 2021 20:08:17 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I do find it interesting that they romanticize the era, the equipment, the experience - but they're so openly hostile to the people who lived it - and actually constantly argue with those people and try and tell them they don't know WTF they're talking about. In particular, they're very easily triggered by the themes of our generation's games and gaming media which they find sexist or otherwise "probematic". They want their Amiga experience to be pure of German Amiga magazines with hot blonde pinups wearing thong high cut one piece bathing suits and stiletto heels. They don't like games where you can play the Germans in WWII. They want their own modern sensibilities retroactively written into the history of classic retro computing.

But there are a lot of things they want to have their cake and eat it too, on - not just retro gaming.

But... even among the old-timer retro-gamers, especially the Commodore ones - there is still that anti-social-nerd chip on the shoulder with disagreeme

Sun Jan 10 2021 16:14:46 EST from Nurb432

Even tho im not a gamer, never was, retooling older games to run on current a OS, i fully understand the appeal. Its the 'look i'm running TOS on a PI! Go me i'm cool!' crowd i just dont get. It may be faster, cheaper, but its not the same. They have never touched the real hardware. Deprecated it for what it was when it was new and cutting edge.. fought with limitations, and frustrations, ever experienced a 300 baud acoustic modem. Hell, even a rotary phone.. ( or in my case, having to call the operator to connect you..never experienced that, but im not going to put a pretend phone on my wall, with the guts of a PI to turn it into a voip device, and be proud of it )

Perhaps its the "get of my lawn" in me, i just dont see it.

( assuming they even know what TOS is, or AES.. :) )

Message #4644806

Mon, 11 Jan 2021 12:40:51 -0000

Learning OS concepts, that woudl fall under "education" that i was supporting of.

Mon Jan 11 2021 06:27:39 EST from darknetuser

Not real fond of the 'retro emulation' movement either ( beyond the

idea of learning/engineering of simpler tech. If you want an ST go

get one.. Pretending you have one isn't the same as holding it in

your hand, mashing the keys, the feel of the plastic... Its like

putting a pinto logo on your Porsche and just driving slower.. its

not the same. I do see reasons to "emulate" for dev and

experimental work, ( both software and FPGA ) but not the retro side

of things.

It is funny you say that since I have been toying with early minicomputer operating systems as of late.

I think looking at how things used to be done is freakign awesome. Specially when you discover that tools that are widely used today already existed in BSD 2.x

Besides, lots of old stuff I find better than modern stuff. I like some old games much more than I do AAA titles.

I agree that putting a BSD 2.x emulator in a modern SBC, and then placing the whole thing in a PDP-8 case shaped as a DEC minicomputer is a bit silly.

But hey, there is people training in serious sling sharp-shooting and zweihander combat. To each his own I guess.

Message #4644794

Mon, 11 Jan 2021 11:27:39 -0000
>Not real fond of the 'retro emulation' movement either ( beyond the >idea of learning/engineering of simpler tech. If you want an ST go >get one.. Pretending you have one isn't the same as holding it in >your hand, mashing the keys, the feel of the plastic... Its like >putting a pinto logo on your Porsche and just driving slower.. its >not the same. I do see reasons to "emulate" for dev and >experimental work, ( both software and FPGA ) but not the retro side >of things. It is funny you say that since I have been toying with early minicomputer operating systems as of late. I think looking at how things used to be done is freakign awesome. Specially when you discover that tools that are widely used today already existed in BSD 2.x Besides, lots of old stuff I find better than modern stuff. I like some old games much more than I do AAA titles. I agree that putting a BSD 2.x emulator in a modern SBC, and then placing the whole thing in a PDP-8 case shaped as a DEC minicomputer is a bit silly. But hey, there is people training in serious sling sharp-shooting and zweihander combat. To each his own I guess.

Message #4644704

Mon, 11 Jan 2021 01:08:17 -0000

I do find it interesting that they romanticize the era, the equipment, the experience - but they're so openly hostile to the people who lived it - and actually constantly argue with those people and try and tell them they don't know WTF they're talking about. In particular, they're very easily triggered by the themes of our generation's games and gaming media which they find sexist or otherwise "probematic". They want their Amiga experience to be pure of German Amiga magazines with hot blonde pinups wearing thong high cut one piece bathing suits and stiletto heels. They don't like games where you can play the Germans in WWII. They want their own modern sensibilities retroactively written into the history of classic retro computing.

But there are a lot of things they want to have their cake and eat it too, on - not just retro gaming.

But... even among the old-timer retro-gamers, especially the Commodore ones - there is still that anti-social-nerd chip on the shoulder with disagreeme

Sun Jan 10 2021 16:14:46 EST from Nurb432

Even tho im not a gamer, never was, retooling older games to run on current a OS, i fully understand the appeal. Its the 'look i'm running TOS on a PI! Go me i'm cool!' crowd i just dont get. It may be faster, cheaper, but its not the same. They have never touched the real hardware. Deprecated it for what it was when it was new and cutting edge.. fought with limitations, and frustrations, ever experienced a 300 baud acoustic modem. Hell, even a rotary phone.. ( or in my case, having to call the operator to connect you..never experienced that, but im not going to put a pretend phone on my wall, with the guts of a PI to turn it into a voip device, and be proud of it )

Perhaps its the "get of my lawn" in me, i just dont see it.

( assuming they even know what TOS is, or AES.. :) )

Message #4644656

Sun, 10 Jan 2021 22:31:41 -0000

What I really enjoy is new engines that make old games playable, or even better than before. Dungeon Keeper, for instance. Or Quake 1, still my favorite FPS of all.

Message #4644646

Sun, 10 Jan 2021 21:14:46 -0000

Even tho im not a gamer, never was, retooling older games to run on current a OS, i fully understand the appeal. Its the 'look i'm running TOS on a PI! Go me i'm cool!' crowd i just dont get. It may be faster, cheaper, but its not the same. They have never touched the real hardware. Deprecated it for what it was when it was new and cutting edge.. fought with limitations, and frustrations, ever experienced a 300 baud acoustic modem. Hell, even a rotary phone.. ( or in my case, having to call the operator to connect you..never experienced that, but im not going to put a pretend phone on my wall, with the guts of a PI to turn it into a voip device, and be proud of it )

Perhaps its the "get of my lawn" in me, i just dont see it.

( assuming they even know what TOS is, or AES.. :) )

Message #4644583

Sun, 10 Jan 2021 15:21:45 -0000

So, Minecraft, 5 Nights of Freddies, and Undertale. These popular mobile apps that decided to embrace simplicity by using 8-bit era graphics, themes and motifs. Kind of like Lucas and King leveraged recent history in their story telling.

Evil Bel Aires became evil homicidal arcade animatronics. In the case of 5 Nights of Freddies, that created an interest in 80s era computing. You probably can add that among the oldest of them, they were there to kind of see it - but were so young they were told, "you're too little for this." Now there is no uncle or brother to tell them that.

I know that in 2001 when I started - nobody was selling retro equipment. They were throwing it away. You had to scour thrift stores. There were very few retailers and very few people making retro oriented homebrews and new hardware. That stuff was *expensive*.

Emulation was free, and offered to consolidate everything you needed on something you already owned, and the software was all out there.

Sun Jan 10 2021 08:29:07 EST from Nurb432

Which to be honest i have never understood. None of them lived thru those times. They cant comprehend WHY they were special ( or not, depending on model and era ). At least when some of us old folks do it there is actual sentimental value of the objects, and true understanding of what they are.

Not real fond of the 'retro emulation' movement either ( beyond the idea of learning/engineering of simpler tech. If you want an ST go get one.. Pretending you have one isn't the same as holding it in your hand, mashing the keys, the feel of the plastic... Its like putting a pinto logo on your Porsche and just driving slower.. its not the same. I do see reasons to "emulate" for dev and experimental work, ( both software and FPGA ) but not the retro side of things.

Would be like me going out and getting a bunch of new furniture and appliances made to look like the 50s and convert my house into a mid 50s home... i wasn't there. its silly. Sure, looking at some old movies at how it was from the angle of where did we come from, cool, but living like that 'because its retro'?

And this is of course coming from a past collector/hoarder as you know...

Message #4644557

Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:29:07 -0000

Which to be honest i have never understood. None of them lived thru those times. They cant comprehend WHY they were special ( or not, depending on model and era ). At least when some of us old folks do it there is actual sentimental value of the objects, and true understanding of what they are.

Not real fond of the 'retro emulation' movement either ( beyond the idea of learning/engineering of simpler tech. If you want an ST go get one.. Pretending you have one isn't the same as holding it in your hand, mashing the keys, the feel of the plastic... Its like putting a pinto logo on your Porsche and just driving slower.. its not the same. I do see reasons to "emulate" for dev and experimental work, ( both software and FPGA ) but not the retro side of things.

Would be like me going out and getting a bunch of new furniture and appliances made to look like the 50s and convert my house into a mid 50s home... i wasn't there. its silly. Sure, looking at some old movies at how it was from the angle of where did we come from, cool, but living like that 'because its retro'?

And this is of course coming from a past collector/hoarder as you know...

Mon Jan 04 2021 14:09:51 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Retrocollecting is full of a bunch of - what at this point I assume are mostly Millennial and younger collectors - who've read a bunch of opinion blogs by and pieced together that the BEST display for an 8 or 16 bit classic system is a high quality broadcast multisync display with a Trinitron tube.

They use them for their Sony PSx, for their NES systems - for their FPGA devices - and the swear up and down that it is the BEST solution possible.

Message #4644556

Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:28:21 -0000

Which to be honest i have never understood. None of them lived thru those times. They cant comprehend WHY they were special ( or not, depending on model and era ). At least when some of us old folks do it there is actual sentimental value of the objects, and true understanding of what they are.

Not real fond of the 'retro emulation' movement either ( beyond the idea of learning/engineering of simpler tech. If you want an ST go get one.. Pretending you have one isn't the same as holding it in your hand, mashing the keys, the feel of the plastic... Its like putting a pinto logo on your Porsche and just driving slower.. its not the same. I do see reasons to "emulate" for dev and experimental work, ( both software and FPGA ) but not the retro side of things.

Would be like me going out and getting a bunch of new furniture and appliances made to look like the 50s and convert my house into a mid 50s home... i wasn't there. its silly. Sure, looking at some old movies at how it was from the angle of where did we come from, cool, but living like that 'because its retro'?

And this is of course coming from a past collector/hoarder as you know...

Mon Jan 04 2021 14:09:51 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Retrocollecting is full of a bunch of - what at this point I assume are mostly Millennial and younger collectors - who've read a bunch of opinion blogs by and pieced together that the BEST display for an 8 or 16 bit classic system is a high quality broadcast multisync display with a Trinitron tube.

They use them for their Sony PSx, for their NES systems - for their FPGA devices - and the swear up and down that it is the BEST solution possible.

Message #4642657

Mon, 04 Jan 2021 19:09:51 -0000

Retrocollecting is full of a bunch of - what at this point I assume are mostly Millennial and younger collectors - who've read a bunch of opinion blogs by and pieced together that the BEST display for an 8 or 16 bit classic system is a high quality broadcast multisync display with a Trinitron tube.

They use them for their Sony PSx, for their NES systems - for their FPGA devices - and the swear up and down that it is the BEST solution possible.

But there is an obvious dichotomy there on why they want these things. They want the CRT for visible scanlines and 4:3 ratio and the glow of the guns hitting the phosphors on the tube.

But they want the super-fine dot pitch of the Trinitron for ultra crisp text.

They simply don't understand that part of what early developers leveraged was pixel bleed and large dot pitch shadow-masks and that you can't get both. If you want pixel-perfect, super crisp text - an LCD gets rid of all of the artifacts of CRT raster techn

Mon Jan 04 2021 10:28:49 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

A repurposed composite monitor was what I could afford at the time so that's what I used. I always seemed to be a generation behind when it came to monitors ... my C-64 was connected to a television.

Message #4642581

Mon, 04 Jan 2021 15:28:49 -0000
>The *best* solution is a matched CRT that was appropriate to that >Amiga as configured back in the day. That isn't the most practical Right. I didn't even have an RGB monitor on my Amiga. A repurposed composite monitor was what I could afford at the time so that's what I used. I always seemed to be a generation behind when it came to monitors ... my C-64 was connected to a television.

Message #4641591

Sat, 02 Jan 2021 19:10:33 -0000

Oh, I realize it is more - or different, than an upscaler.

But there are such inexpensive, low-tech, more native methods to achieve the goal - and to me, the less complex solution is almost always the superior one - especially when dealing with retro-platforms.

People seem to struggle with the 15khz systems too. In the communities - there are constant flame wars over CRT vs. LCD vs. HDMI upscalers and "authenticity". 4:3 vs. 16:9, and all the different interfaces that might get a signal from a classic machine into a display.

A lot of people insist on a Sony BVM/PVM for retro-gaming - or at least a very nice VGA multi-sync non-fixed sync capable of variable frequency ranges. A *lot* of them actually don't understand that a super crisp .25 trinitron is as useless on a CGA PCA as a modern LCD when it comes to pixel-art and allowing color bleed to create "analog" palettes and make indistinct figures and sprites and graphics look MORE complex than they look on a pixel-per

Fri Jan 01 2021 14:02:55 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

The article that zooer posted does not appear to be "just" an upscaler ... it captures the digital signals from the Amiga video chipset before they are converted to analog. That would probably do very well to eliminate ghosting (but maybe not artifacts).

I can only imagine what an Amiga video signal might look like on a good quality VGA monitor from the late 1990s. For that matter, even the IBM 8530 monitor from the original PS/2 line would probably make an insane Amiga monitor, since it had a reasonably high persistence phosphor, and looked nice and sharp because it was smaller than most monitors (the old Mac trick).

Message #4641058

Fri, 01 Jan 2021 19:02:55 -0000
The article that zooer posted does not appear to be "just" an upscaler ... it captures the digital signals from the Amiga video chipset before they are converted to analog. That would probably do very well to eliminate ghosting (but maybe not artifacts). I can only imagine what an Amiga video signal might look like on a good quality VGA monitor from the late 1990s. For that matter, even the IBM 8530 monitor from the original PS/2 line would probably make an insane Amiga monitor, since it had a reasonably high persistence phosphor, and looked nice and sharp because it was smaller than most monitors (the old Mac trick).

Message #4641045

Fri, 01 Jan 2021 18:53:33 -0000

It used to be that we were so busy with our real lives, that on holidays BBS traffic would spike because people had leisure time to log on and burn.

Now, we're so busy being connected 24x7, that when we have a holiday, BBS traffic drops.

I liked the old way better.

Message #4640754

Thu, 31 Dec 2020 02:08:28 -0000

Vs. a DB23 to DB15 with a 15khz LCD

Message #4640752

Thu, 31 Dec 2020 02:06:52 -0000

So, I have an HDMI upscaler - and it creates artifacts and ghosting - and HDMI tends to have inherent issues with lag because of the digital handshaking and encoding. That is really a problem with HDMI - and why so many HDMI screens have a "game mode" that tries to shut down the overhead and speed things up.

It is pretty cool to see an Amiga on a 46" LCD TV... but after the novelty wore off...

I went to a Amiga DB23 to DB15 VGA adapter that costs about $20 and picked up a 15khz capable LCD. It is the easiest, least expensive, and best set of trade offs to get an old Amiga displaying on a modern display, in my opinion.

Amiga hooked up to a 46" HDMI TV

Wed Dec 30 2020 11:19:14 EST from zooer

Upgrade your old Amiga with an HDMI port.

Message #4640543

Wed, 30 Dec 2020 16:19:14 -0000

Upgrade your old Amiga with an HDMI port.

https://hackaday.com/2020/12/30/amiga-now-includes-hdmi-by-way-of-a-raspberry-pi-daughterboard/

Message #4639735

Tue, 29 Dec 2020 04:49:32 -0000

And titles like Countermeasure... tanks and euro-theater cold-war mastermind code breaking with global thermonuclear war...

Yeah, baby...

http://www.atariprotos.com/5200/software/countermeasure/countermeasure.htm

Message #4639733

Tue, 29 Dec 2020 04:44:55 -0000

It is my favorite console of all time, hands down - and I'm somewhat of an evangelist for it. There are more and more of us, as time goes on.

I've got 4 of 'em. Maybe 5. Not including FPGA and emulation.

I had a Coleco and a 5200 back in the day. I always preferred the A5200. A lot of people recognize it was the prototype for a lot of things that came later, like the original Xbox - even if it isn't obvious. The controllers, with their analog sticks, were the precursor of d-pad analog thumbsticks. The design was intended to look at home in an adult entertainment center. Among fans, it is referred to as "Big Sexy". It was an Atari 400 without a keyboard, basically.

It had some of the most innovative console games of the day - and the equipment was all actually super durable - even those sticks. They're fairly easy to repair and the mechanicals take tons of abuse - it was the emerging flex-circuit carbon dot technology in the controllers and the non-centering

Mon Dec 28 2020 11:03:51 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

I see you have an Atari 5200. For some reason, that was one of my favorites, even though it seems an unremarkable system in hindsight.

Message #4639535

Mon, 28 Dec 2020 18:08:27 -0000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattel_Auto_Race

Sun Dec 27 2020 19:12:03 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Can't view the image - but these days, even if it doesn't work, it has value - whatever it is.

The old stuff has become remarkably easy to repair.

Message #4639421

Mon, 28 Dec 2020 16:03:51 -0000

This is my current collection/display/museum

I see you have an Atari 5200. For some reason, that was one of my favorites, even though it seems an unremarkable system in hindsight.

Message #4638712

Mon, 28 Dec 2020 00:12:03 -0000

Can't view the image - but these days, even if it doesn't work, it has value - whatever it is.

The old stuff has become remarkably easy to repair.

Message #4638236

Sat, 26 Dec 2020 23:06:48 -0000

I guess i lied. i do have a 2nd old 'game' ... found it out in the garage in a toolbox.. a bit worse for wear. Was an xmas gift when it was new.. perhaps 1976..

Doubt it works at this point.

Message #4636345

Thu, 24 Dec 2020 00:15:39 -0000

:)

It wasn't offered, just a remote thanks..

Several CD games, carts, extra controllers.. original boxes

Was mine new, it saw a lot of pay time. I have the voice from cybermorph drilled in to my head.

Wed Dec 23 2020 18:14:24 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Also - if you gave me a Jaguar CD, not only would I let you in the house, we would hook it up, play some games, have some drinks, and do it without masks.

Worth the risk.

Message #4636311

Wed, 23 Dec 2020 23:14:24 -0000

Also - if you gave me a Jaguar CD, not only would I let you in the house, we would hook it up, play some games, have some drinks, and do it without masks.

Worth the risk.

Message #4636301

Wed, 23 Dec 2020 23:06:31 -0000

I'll take whatever you've got.

This never happens to me anymore. Last thing like that which has happened to me is that a guy gave me a TI994/A he owned as a kid.

This is my current collection/display/museum

Wed Dec 23 2020 16:33:49 EST from Nurb432 @ Uncensored

Speaking of games, this summer I gave away my jaguar + cd to a guy at work. Took it to his house, set it on his porch, rang the bell and walked back to the yard to wave. Gotta love people that are overly paranoid about the virus.

And i guess i forgot, a dude at work gave me an Atari 1200XL this year. "hey you collect old computers, right, i got this here, it was my Atari for years that my dad bought me as a kid.. bla bla " Even tho i stopped collecting long ago and purged 100s of machines he was so excited i couldn't turn him down. It qualifies as a 'find' i guess, just unintentional one.

( of course has zero to do with apple... man this thread went sideways :) )

All i really have left are a couple of portables . The PX-8 is too special ( was a NOS we found in Canada perhaps 15 years ago, was a anniversary gift. ) but the Kaypro II is just collecting dust and needs to go to a new home. Kept a few HP calculators and my newton, but they were small. Its amazing how much shelf space they were taking up. I just stood there one day looking at it, 'this needs to stop'. and it did :)

Wed Dec 23 2020 15:09:49 EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored

I also was once at a family gathering in Bakersfield, we were eating at this Mexican place, I went out into the parking lot for a smoke, saw a Goodwill, walked in, and walked out with an Intelivision in immaculate shape for $5.95.

Message #4636279

Wed, 23 Dec 2020 21:33:49 -0000

Speaking of games, this summer I gave away my jaguar + cd to a guy at work. Took it to his house, set it on his porch, rang the bell and walked back to the yard to wave. Gotta love people that are overly paranoid about the virus.

And i guess i forgot, a dude at work gave me an Atari 1200XL this year. "hey you collect old computers, right, i got this here, it was my Atari for years that my dad bought me as a kid.. bla bla " Even tho i stopped collecting long ago and purged 100s of machines he was so excited i couldn't turn him down. It qualifies as a 'find' i guess, just unintentional one.

( of course has zero to do with apple... man this thread went sideways :) )

All i really have left are a couple of portables . The PX-8 is too special ( was a NOS we found in Canada perhaps 15 years ago, was a anniversary gift. ) but the Kaypro II is just collecting dust and needs to go to a new home. Kept a few HP calculators and my newton, but they were small. Its amazing how much shelf space they were taking up. I just stood there one day looking at it, 'this needs to stop'. and it did :)

Wed Dec 23 2020 15:09:49 EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored

I also was once at a family gathering in Bakersfield, we were eating at this Mexican place, I went out into the parking lot for a smoke, saw a Goodwill, walked in, and walked out with an Intelivision in immaculate shape for $5.95.

Message #4636243

Wed, 23 Dec 2020 20:09:49 -0000

My first tech job was at a used computer store. Within months I had become the primary buyer when people bought machines in. At some point, the boss took me aside and said, "we want to pay the seller an *ethical* price - which might be MORE than they're willing to take for the item."

I've always been good at this. I mean, recently, when we talked about Intel NUCs to run The Sanitarium on here - I looked and went - like... $400 for the cheapest i5 NUC... If I want to be under $300 I'm into Core Duos and Centrinos - I might as well stay on the Pi...

So... a little shopping, and I have two i5 NUC/Minis for $205. Makes me want to buy about 3 more and retire a couple of the laptops I keep around.

I also was once at a family gathering in Bakersfield, we were eating at this Mexican place, I went out into the parking lot for a smoke, saw a Goodwill, walked in, and walked out with an Intelivision in immaculate shape for $5.95.

Still have that. One of the

Wed Dec 23 2020 10:28:01 EST from Nurb432 @ Uncensored

Some of their stories, make me jealous

" found this stack of 1 year old macbook pros on the corner out at the local school" or " ya, these 10 xeon servers, sitting in a box beside the dumpster" " or this Altair at a garage sale for 5 bucks" why cant i ever be like that?

In my decades of being in the business, i have found ONE machine like this.. People next door to me in a double moved out and left an Apple II on the kitchen floor, that i noticed due to a 'shared' driveway.. ( not including things i have got by doing upgrades myself and 'hauling' away the old stuff as that wasn't technically 'found' ). not new by any stretch, but i was still collecting retro machines at that point, so it was a nice find for me.

Message #4630333

Tue, 15 Dec 2020 23:55:29 -0000

Yeah... I think we all look at what we used to write or draw or play when we get older and go, "Oh my God!"

I'm not sure why. I tend to like it, though - it is like seeing a snapshot of me in time.

Tue Dec 15 2020 11:16:24 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

I have to cringe a little bit over the way I wrote back then.

Message #4630121

Tue, 15 Dec 2020 16:16:24 -0000
I have to cringe a little bit over the way I wrote back then.

Message #4612920

Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:01:57 -0000

Tue Nov 24 2020 13:33:45 EST from zooer @ Uncensored

Yeah, this has been there for a while but for some reason I looked today.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000815061945/http://uncensored.citadel.org/

Funny, I just added a link from the gateway to my Citadel to the Wayback version of my homepage from 1998.

Message #4612844

Tue, 24 Nov 2020 18:33:45 -0000

Yeah, this has been there for a while but for some reason I looked today.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000815061945/http://uncensored.citadel.org/

Message #4597901

Sun, 08 Nov 2020 20:37:19 -0000

Tue Aug 25 2020 14:29:39 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

I've really not found that to be the case. People forgive Microsoft or Salesforce for problems, where they wouldn't forgive their internal staff.

I don't think they FORGIVE. They accept that they're powerless.

Message #4581809

Tue, 01 Sep 2020 13:00:18 -0000
OI do not forgive Microsoft. Ever.

Message #4580621

Tue, 25 Aug 2020 18:29:39 -0000
I've really not found that to be the case. People forgive Microsoft or Salesforce for problems, where they wouldn't forgive their internal staff.

Message #4579878

Fri, 21 Aug 2020 19:56:20 -0000

I once explained it almost exactly like this to a room of C level executives. The CFO said, "Give me their number, I'll call them and we'll see about that."

A couple hours later he came back and said, "Those guys are assholes..."

:D

Message #4579877

Fri, 21 Aug 2020 19:54:37 -0000

Tue Aug 11 2020 13:43:51 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

Businesses like SaaS. Sellers because it leads to predictable revenues, buyers because operational expenses are better tax wise.

I find that executives dislike SaaS when their IT staff tells them, "We don't actually have any control over that service, we just call their tech support and they fix it, and we're not necessarily their priority customer."

Message #4577702

Tue, 11 Aug 2020 21:44:42 -0000

I am currently dealing with a software vendor who offers both on-prem and SaaS versions of their software. If it were my decision I would have gone with on-prem. Their SaaS version is completely stupid: they make you choose the version of their software you want, and then when they offer new versions you have to go through a complex set of upgrade procedures. This completely discards the CI/CD benefit of SaaS while still forcing the customer to pay forever.

Of course, I still think that software costing more than $0 is evil.

Message #4577660

Tue, 11 Aug 2020 17:43:51 -0000
Businesses like SaaS. Sellers because it leads to predictable revenues, buyers because operational expenses are better tax wise. I don't think consumers really relish it, but are being forced into it. When people start looking to cut expenses, it's those recurrent expenses they look to drop first.

Message #4576541

Thu, 06 Aug 2020 14:07:10 -0000

A previous employer was talking about software as a service around 2006, he said it would be the future. I didn't believe him. Everything is a web app. My mother enjoys genealogy, she had a great program that she spent years getting the data into. She had to update her computer and the software is no longer available, it is a web app. She spent years working on our families history, there are many things she doesn't want others to have access to. It might be listed as private but it isn't.

Quicken is another program that is software as a service.

Message #4576537

Thu, 06 Aug 2020 13:30:18 -0000
Every now and then I've tried setting out an old terminal to have that old-skool computing experience. It never ends up being useful enough to justify the desk space it takes up. It's fine for a bit of programming, and fine for Citadel as long as you're not following links. If you have the Citadel client running locally you can configure it to open links in a real browser, then you can just hit "RL View" at the message prompt. I've never found text-mode browsers to be useful at all. Even back in the old days when web pages were static and straightforward, they were never built for multiple kinds of devices as the creators of HTML intended; they were built for Netscape. And today, most web pages are mini applications running in the browser window; forget about them even rendering at all on anything other than a modern browser. What I find amusing about modern web applications is that the late-1990s vision for Java essentially became reality less than 20 years later. Sun expected applications to download into a local execution environment at the moment the user called for them, and store all of their state on a server. The applications would have to be written in Java, of course, which is what caused this vision to initially fail. Today, this is exactly how most new software works, except the execution environment is the browser's JavaScript engine. But they basically nailed the vision: write once, run anywhere; remove dependencies on specific hardware and software at the user's end; eliminate the need for persistent storage on the client side. And it's truly pervasive -- even Microsoft Office runs in a web browser now. Talk about a Pyrrhic victory for Sun.

Message #4575155

Fri, 31 Jul 2020 17:01:39 -0000

My feeling is that part of the allure of old-school telecommunications is less fluff, though - so, I suppose I'm getting exactly what I want.

Message #4574949

Thu, 30 Jul 2020 23:52:31 -0000
> 2020-07-30 00:54 from ParanoidDelusions >Funny thing, I'm on my Amiga in an ancient terminal program in a Telnet >session, and I can't easily follow the links above to see where they >lead - that tends to be the case. You can get online, but you can only >see a portion of the view. Like being a 2D person in a 3D world. > > Agreed. I try not to post http(s) links when working on BBS with text terminal interaces. Or if I do, I post a summary of the contents behind the link. http(s) is so pervasive that even FreeDOS had to include a web browser.

Message #4574706

Thu, 30 Jul 2020 04:54:48 -0000
Funny thing, I'm on my Amiga in an ancient terminal program in a Telnet session, and I can't easily follow the links above to see where they lead - that tends to be the case. You can get online, but you can only see a portion of the view. Like being a 2D person in a 3D world.

Message #4536815

Fri, 27 Mar 2020 17:57:53 -0000
Wow, there's a lot of it. What I love about these older systems is that it's possible for a single person to understand the entire computer, from the hardware level all the way up through every level of the operating system. I knew my C-64 with that level of understanding. I spent countless hours poring through books learning every hardware register on every chip and poking around (pun intended) to learn how it all worked. It's possible to understand Z-80 and CP/M at that level too. After around 1990 or so it started to become impossible for one person to understand the entire hardware/software stack of a modern computer. Still thinking about this "post-apocalyptic computing" concept, though ... if we find ourselves in a world where chip fabs no longer exist, the VAST majority of "scrounged hardware", even in junk piles from before the collapse, will be at least 32 bit. (Final note: if something like this happens, I want to die first.)

Message #4536375

Thu, 26 Mar 2020 02:46:05 -0000

Not sure you need tons of power (car batteries and solar panels). Not sure on CP/M - is the source out there? Well, I'll be damned:

http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html

Never mind.

Message #4534920

Fri, 20 Mar 2020 13:39:46 -0000
Hmm. That's pretty neat, actually. But he fails to answer a very obvious question: why not just use CP/M? (He also fails to answer another question: in this post-collapse society, why is the power still on?)

Message #4534645

Thu, 19 Mar 2020 13:10:16 -0000

Might not want to clean house just yet: https://collapseos.org/

Message #4531932

Tue, 10 Mar 2020 17:47:39 -0000

Neat! Every vinyl record should have ... oh wait.

Message #4494724

Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:31:08 -0000

A C64 program hidden on a track on a vinyl album.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_CZpFqvDQo

Message #4487006

Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:31:05 -0000
Like all 1950's films ... "in the future, your home will be full of slide projectors pretending to be computers."

Message #4485500

Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:25:01 -0000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAELQX7EvPo

Message #4485497

Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:04:29 -0000

Mmmmmmmembrane keyboard with a wobbly ram pack :-)

Message #4483153

Mon, 09 Sep 2019 05:21:17 -0000

Sun Sep 08 2019 13:33:01 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Oh wow ... I had one too, an ADDS VP60, which was the console for the computer that ran Uncensored from 1988 until 1990. I miss my old terminals. I had an ADDS VP60, a Zenith Z-19, an IBM 3151, and a Televideo 925. None of them survived. I still have a Wyse 150, but that's a much newer terminal, and it misses some of that old charm.

All of these old things are getting very expensive among retro-computer collectors. There is this frenzy suddenly to have old computers that a Droid 1 could emulate without breaking a sweat, and to pay boatloads of money for most of them. Retro consoles too.

I have quite a collection of old stuff, though nothing of this vintage (well... I have an Atari 2600 or two, an Atari 800, a C-128 - but no Z80 CP/M dual floppy machines with a dumb terminal).

But honestly - I do most of my nostalgia computing on an FPGA device - and it is almost bulletproof. Not emulation - but synthesis of the bare metal gate logic of the actual machines in hardware. Pretty cool stuff.

Message #4483042

Sun, 08 Sep 2019 17:33:01 -0000
Oh wow ... I had one too, an ADDS VP60, which was the console for the computer that ran Uncensored from 1988 until 1990. I miss my old terminals. I had an ADDS VP60, a Zenith Z-19, an IBM 3151, and a Televideo 925. None of them survived. I still have a Wyse 150, but that's a much newer terminal, and it misses some of that old charm.

Message #4482024

Thu, 05 Sep 2019 02:21:10 -0000

Mon Feb 18 2019 13:10:15 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

whether their computer has a "floating keyboard" ... how many would get the answer correct?

I never heard the term “floating keyboard” before. When they were first introduced, we called them “detachable” or “detached” keyboards.

Message #4482012

Thu, 05 Sep 2019 02:01:14 -0000
Oh, and it had a floating keyboard. :D

Message #4482011

Thu, 05 Sep 2019 02:01:06 -0000
I had an ADDS Viewpoint Terminal I bought from HSC electronics to use with a MIC-504 dual floppy CP/M device - it ran my first REAL Citadel BBS.

Message #4481847

Wed, 04 Sep 2019 14:03:42 -0000
Correct. Floating keyboards are ubiquitous now, but in the early days of computing it was a novel idea to have a keyboard that wasn't built in to the video terminal.

Message #4481740

Wed, 04 Sep 2019 05:05:05 -0000
I don't know what a floating keyboard is. Is that just a keyboard that isn't built into the computer like an A500, C64 or Apple II? Basically a 101 style AT keyboard?

Message #4481706

Wed, 04 Sep 2019 03:06:41 -0000

Mon Aug 26 2019 09:36:07 AM EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

Anybody know what this is? I saw it at a rest stop.

It's called a COCOT

[ Contraption Of Crappy Older Times ]

Message #4478739

Mon, 26 Aug 2019 14:17:08 -0000

Sorry, wrong thread.

By the way, many people still use those things around here. It is just that most of them are located in stores where they are for rent :)

Message #4478738

Mon, 26 Aug 2019 14:15:45 -0000

Only if they catch them.

Real men are not afraid of danger.

Message #4478735

Mon, 26 Aug 2019 13:36:07 -0000

Anybody know what this is? I saw it at a rest stop.

Message #4424185

Mon, 18 Feb 2019 18:10:15 -0000
And don't forget long distance! aka "Direct Distance Dialing" [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoYq6uA_Lhw ] So I was thinking today ... I wonder, if you got a bunch of people who didn't use computers before, say, the 1990's ... and you asked them whether their computer has a "floating keyboard" ... how many would get the answer correct?

Message #4418853

Wed, 30 Jan 2019 23:35:32 -0000

You can dial your own phone (1954)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYPOC-gCGA

And the follow-up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OADXNGnJok

Message #4392820

Tue, 06 Nov 2018 15:34:12 -0000
I know a guy who made a boatload of money (as in, it pretty much paid for his boat) selling BLAST, which was basically Xmodem with a high price tag. But they made it available for every obscure platform in existence, sold it on every medium (tape etc) and really entrenched themselves well in the market. He named his boat "BLAST" and put the logo on the transom.

Message #4392454

Mon, 05 Nov 2018 17:58:21 -0000
Of course there were ways to share. Most of them difficult and time consuming.

Message #4392235

Mon, 05 Nov 2018 03:37:08 -0000

Mon Oct 22 2018 01:53:07 PM EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

Friendly? You're delusional.

Nothing was compatible between systems. Zilch. Even simple documents were next to impossible to share. ...

Plenty of people shared across systems with BBS systems. I can remember dialing in to a system hosted on an Atari ST system and downloading BASIC programs in the same day as I downloaded some BASIC programs for my TRS-80 Model 102 from another BBS over packet radio from a boat while fishing on a lake.

For the general public, they were also using different systems (non x86) to go online and do dial up using FIDO and other linked systems not too many years after that. I would say it was open to the masses to share things, and that would have continued.

Message #4388770

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 15:51:21 -0000
Right, Gary Kildall. https://www.digitalresearch.biz/GARY&CPM.HTM His own words regarding CP/M, etc. I thought it an interesting read. Semi-related, though, is this article where someone determined that MS-DOS did not copy CP/M code at all: http://www.embedded-computing.com/embedded-computing-design/software-forensics-lay-ms-dos-cp-m-controversy-to-rest The TL;DR is, no, MS-DOS copies no code from CP/M, and Microsoft likely settled the case out of court just to get past the whole issue since there wasn't much money involved in the lawsuit at all. (According to the article... you can read it yourself to decide if they're full of crap or merits any respect). OTOH, the article also kinda reads like an advertisement for a software tool that helps perform forensics, which is rather a clever idea ... hooking people into reading the article by using the target software to prove or disprove something controversial.

Amazing

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 11:29:11 -0000

What Paul Allen and Bill Gates did with that first BASIC is simply amazing. It would run in 4K of RAM!

The BASIC itself was approx. 3200 bytes of code leaving 800 bytes for the program.

It supported 32 bit floating point with transcendentals. Ie:sin, cos, etc.

At the time you could get a library of subroutines to do the said floating point operations. The library was about 1600 bytes.

So Allen and Gates did the rest of the BASIC interpreter in a total of 1600 bytes. Amazing!!

For the record, a 4 MHz Intel 8080 would do this benchmark:

For I = 1 to 1000

Next I

In just under 4 seconds. That was the normal max clock for the cpu.

Allen and Gates also did a version of the interpreter for the Motorola 6800.

Max clock for the 6800 was 1 MHz.

Intel and Motorola processed things internally in different ways.

The 6800 version at max clock did the benchmark at 3.2 seconds. marginally faster.

1600 bytes!

Message #4388698

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 11:24:35 -0000

With Paul Allen’s passing it is worth noting the similarities between Microsoft and Apple.

In the both cases the principals that started the companies split. Why?

Paul Allen came down with lymphoma in the early 80’s. His survival was in doubt. He eventually recovers. On a visit to the office, he gets wind that Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer are plotting how to get his Microsoft stock. After all, he is not contributing to the company. At that point he started the process of leaving and taking his stock with him.

Steve Wozniak in the early 80’s was beginning to enjoy the fruits of his labor. He started taking pilot’s lessons and bought an airplane. At some point he has a crash landing. He is injured and goes through a long recovery. He gets wind that Steve Jobs and Mike Markkula are plotting to recover his stock in Apple. That started the process of him leaving and taking his stock with him.

Greed. Covet is one of those 10 Commandment things. Ex 20:17

Message #4388403

Wed, 24 Oct 2018 14:24:19 -0000
Mac was the better experience because the newly reJobsed Apple *made* it the better experience. The IIgs was, from stem to stern, a better piece of hardware.

Message #4388186

Wed, 24 Oct 2018 01:15:59 -0000
Having been an apple fanboy in the late 70s through the early to late 80s I can certainly vouch for the fact that the IIgs was a disappointment. I went from learning on an Apple I, to a II+ and owned a Franklin Ace 1000 for a long time. When it was time to go for my next machine between a Mac Plus and the IIgs, the Mac was certainly the better experience. Jobs may have sabotoged the IIGs, but from a user perspective it was the right choice.

Message #4388171

Wed, 24 Oct 2018 00:27:37 -0000
> 2018-10-23 14:17 from IGnatius T Foobar > > The Apple IIgs was very different from the rest of the II line. It >had a 16-bit 65C18 running at 2.8 MHz. Backwards compatibility was >achieved with an onboard "Mega II" chip, which was basically an Apple >II SoC (uncoincidentally, the same SoC used on the Apple II card for >early Macs). > That's like saying the Commodore 128 was vastly superior to the C64. It was, but both were too little too late.

Message #4388130

Tue, 23 Oct 2018 20:47:13 -0000
Maybe. History is written by the victors. Whoever said that Kildall was against selling products other than operating systems might have also been the person responsible for spreading the rumor that he would rather fly around in his airplane instead of meet with IBM. Maybe it was also the same person who was in charge of suppressing the objective truth that Bill Gates really did say "640K ought to be enough for anybody." Digital Research also sold a compiler and runtime called CBASIC. It's what I learned on, actually. I suppose an argument could be made that this counted as system software.

Message #4388116

Tue, 23 Oct 2018 19:39:14 -0000

Tue Oct 23 2018 02:10:05 PM EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

I recall that the guy who invented CP/M was dead-set against the idea of also vending software... either sell the operating system, or the software running on the operating system, but not both.

Gates, by contrast, sought to do both, and thus create a kind of monopoly that the other guy (can't recall his name) thought was immoral.

The late Gary Kildall

Message #4388096

Tue, 23 Oct 2018 18:17:56 -0000
The Apple IIgs was very different from the rest of the II line. It had a 16-bit 65C18 running at 2.8 MHz. Backwards compatibility was achieved with an onboard "Mega II" chip, which was basically an Apple II SoC (uncoincidentally, the same SoC used on the Apple II card for early Macs). It was, by all measures, superior to the original Mac. The only reason the Mac became the flagship was because Steve The Jobs had returned to Apple and he wanted to boot some heads. In fact, one of The Steve's first official acts of state when he returned was to cripple the IIgs clock speed to deliberately make it slower than the Mac. The IIgs had better graphics, better sound, more memory, and backwards compatibility. It was superior to the original Macintosh in every way. More here: [ https://youtu.be/7h4tepFbMso ]

Message #4388093

Tue, 23 Oct 2018 18:10:05 -0000
I recall that the guy who invented CP/M was dead-set against the idea of also vending software... either sell the operating system, or the software running on the operating system, but not both. Gates, by contrast, sought to do both, and thus create a kind of monopoly that the other guy (can't recall his name) thought was immoral.

Message #4388044

Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:38:38 -0000

Tue Oct 23 2018 10:16:35 AM EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

I think you forget that the IIgs was a junker from the get go..... It was rehash of the plain old Apple II from the late 70's. They couldn't milk that cow any longer.

https://apple2forever.com/images/apple2forever/logo-v3.png

Message #4388041

Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:16:35 -0000
I think you forget that the IIgs was a junker from the get go..... It was rehash of the plain old Apple II from the late 70's. They couldn't milk that cow any longer.

Message #4388037

Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:11:51 -0000
Software running on CP/M was interchangeable across all machines running the same CPU, and if you used 8" disks they were generally interchangeable as well. I do think that a CP/M dominated world would have turned out a lot better than an MS-DOS dominated world. MP/M would have formed the basis for a multitasking system years before Microsoft ever had anything usable. And it's likely that DR would have eventually worked on a transition to unix, just like MS was planning to do during the MS-DOS 2.0 days ... before they decided they had to build a Macintosh killer instead. Eventually we would have ended up right around where we are today, but with different technologies and perhaps a lot less pain along the way. On the other side of the world, Apple made a big mistake by moving forward with the Macintosh instead of the Apple //gs. Again, they would have eventually wound up in roughly the same place we are today, but it would have been better in the interim. One final note. Some people know that Bill Gates (spit) was among the first to challenge the idea that there would always be a lot of different types of computers; his opinion was that there was only going to be one kind of computer. Most people who know this assume that he was talking about the standard PC, or as it was known then, the IBM-compatible PC. This is not the case. He was talking about the MSX platform, developed in the early 1980's, and for which (of course) Microsoft built the operating environment (a sort of "Extended BASIC" as was common at the time). More than a dozen manufacturers built compatible machines, which ended up becoming very popular in Japan. In the US they weren't all that popular.

Message #4387850

Tue, 23 Oct 2018 01:28:33 -0000

I used to dial into an old CP/M BBS, I think it ran on a Kaypro machine with two 5¼ floppies. The Sysop wanted to expand so he used a clone and ran Hue's (spit) Citadel86.

Message #4387820

Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:02:31 -0000
It's a *shame*... not a *bit*.

Message #4387819

Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:02:19 -0000
For the times, CP/M had a lot going for it. It's a bit MS-DOS seemed crippled by comparison.

Message #4387775

Mon, 22 Oct 2018 19:30:05 -0000
The following truths are inarguably and objectively ultra-true: 1. If not for Mary Gates getting M$ the inside track on the IBM deal, CP/M would have eventually become the standard operating system. This is evident in the fact that *everyone* had a CP/M emulator or a CP/M mode. 2. Digital Research would have been a more responsible and less evil steward of the de-facto-standard PC operating system than Microsoft was.

Message #4387774

Mon, 22 Oct 2018 19:21:45 -0000
Oh we shared plenty.... Though not in the way the software companies intended.

Message #4387750

Mon, 22 Oct 2018 17:53:07 -0000
Friendly? You're delusional. Nothing was compatible between systems. Zilch. Even simple documents were next to impossible to share. Even functionally similar systems, such as SunOS, HP/UX and AIX were hobbled by the same problems. Forget the home market... Apple, Commodore, Atari, Tandy.... All incompatible with one another. There was some hope in the CP/M S-100 based machines. B They were fun times for kids like us then. But in reality, it sucked not being able to share amongst friends.

Message #4386462

Wed, 17 Oct 2018 19:40:46 -0000
Oof. More douchebaggery from Gates: [ https://www.geekwire.com/2018/bill-gates-pays-tribute-microsoft-co-founder-paul-allen-personal-computing-not-existed-without/ ] He claims that "personal computing would not have existed" without Paul Allen. In reality, personal computing already existed without Paul Allen. *Microsoft* would not have existed without Paul Allen, because he was the one who actually did all of the work. (He later left the company because Gates and Ballmer were conspiring to dilute his equity.) In fact, had Microsoft not entered the picture, personal computing would likely have taken a friendlier and more innovative trajectory. Remember: drinks are on me when Gates finally bites the big one.

Message #4386375

Wed, 17 Oct 2018 15:39:40 -0000
I probably used that version of Citadel-68k. Loved it.

Re: Amiga Citadel - Source?

Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:46:01 -0000
If you communicated with Tony from here, it was likely because The Amiga Zone and Uncensored were both connected to the Citadel network during the last few years of the dialup era. I'm not sure where to find him at this point, but if you do manage to track him down, let him know that this is where all of the old Citadel folks are hanging out now :)

Amiga Citadel - Source?

Mon, 15 Oct 2018 17:55:59 -0000

I have a recollection of asking something similar a few years back... but I cannot say for sure. I'm trying to track down the latest source for Citadel-68K (Amiga) that was presumably abandoned many years ago. It used to be maintained by Tony Preston of The Amiga Zone... thought I corresponded with him through here at one point but again, I cannot say for sure... my mind loses more than it maintains the older I get (such is life I suppose).

Apparently (based on searches) the last executable package released was BA22, but source wise I can only find BA01. I'm not even sure what the versioning method is because it seems to have changed from a standard numeric (i.e. 3.X) to this two letter & two number method at some point. I was curious if there was a source package for BA22 so I could play around with the most recent... one last attempt to find it before I just start from BA01.

Thanks.

Message #4376536

Fri, 14 Sep 2018 17:40:15 -0000
Just stumbled across a YouTube video of someone installing Slackware 1.0 on a VirtualBox VM with the 13 floppies. Brought back painful memories of sitting in a computer lab in Hanover College, Indiana on a VMS system making those flopies myself. I'm proud to say that I started with Linux at 0.98pl13, just 1 patch after that release, and worked with InfoMagic, Inc. in Flagstaff, Arizona doing telephone support to get people who bought the Slackware CD's to configure their LILO and kernel parameters properly in order to see their hard drives/CD-ROM drives. Fun, though very painful times. :)

Message #4376459

Fri, 14 Sep 2018 12:56:50 -0000
I remember those Sinclair membrane keyboards, and the memory pack slipping out of the thing so easily that it made writing software difficult.

Message #4374117

Mon, 03 Sep 2018 18:16:36 -0000
Ah yes, being teased during those early school years, hearing "[IG] says he has one of those typewriter TV sets!"

Message #4373389

Thu, 30 Aug 2018 03:23:10 -0000

Wed Aug 29 2018 10:23:34 AM EDT from wizard of aahz @ Uncensored

And it was an awesome machine. That, a teletype and an Apple I were my first experiences with computers.

I can still remember the "special cart" that held the Apple I (wooden case) back in 5th grade. Did not get another chance to use a computer (outside of a teletype hooked up to the power company in town, or a friend that had a "Video Brain" until early high school.

Message #4373388

Thu, 30 Aug 2018 03:19:53 -0000

Membrane keyboard or nothing! - ha (TS-1000)

The only thing worse than the ZX-81/TS-1000 keyboard would have to be that stupid one on the Atari 400 (original 1979 design). Membrane with ever so slight raised edges around the edge of the key. Suppose they thought it would allow touch typing (surprise! - it didn't)... you just ended up keying in the space between the keys. Brutal to say the least.

At least the TS-1000 I suppose was an early form of an IDE where once you were used to it had all the keywords for the Sinclair Basic ready for you (just scan the keys to jog your memory of what you were looking for).

Message #4373326

Wed, 29 Aug 2018 19:35:13 -0000

Loved the PET and CBM.

Used to have a cassette tape with Space Invaders on it...copied the hell out of that, for folks. My 11th grade homeroom was the Commodore computer lab and we all played SI all homeroom period long.

Message #4373275

Wed, 29 Aug 2018 14:23:34 -0000
And it was an awesome machine. That, a teletype and an Apple I were my first experiences with computers.

Message #4373133

Tue, 28 Aug 2018 20:13:27 -0000
I have a PET 2001 E. 8k. Chicklet keyboard. Built in casette. The keyboard still works, last I checked, but the keys themselves have a lot of wear.... One memory bank went down, and had to swap out half the RAM.... Got that machine in early 1978, so it's amongst the first machines Commodore ever made.

Message #4373086

Tue, 28 Aug 2018 14:27:11 -0000
Yes, the 2001 had the chiclet keyboard and a built-in cassette drive. It was introduced in 1977.

Message #4373015

Tue, 28 Aug 2018 04:02:00 -0000
I think it was a 2001. That's the number that comes to mind.

Message #4373013

Tue, 28 Aug 2018 03:24:06 -0000
I doubt I'd keep the keyboard of a chiclet-PET intact. Just about anything else would be fine. For modders, there are adapter boards you can get that will accept input from an ASCII keyboard and send out keystrokes in the standard USB format. (You know you're looking at an ASCII keyboard if Shift-2 produces a double quote instead of an @ sign.) I don't know what the PET used, but the Apple ][ definitely had an ASCII keyboard. And of course the Apple I required you to bring your own ASCII keyboard.

Message #4372999

Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:04:13 -0000
Actually Ragnar, I think she thinks the same about you. I don't think any of us are ready to storm the barricades to raid your computers, so you're probably safe. Though I do miss the Pet with the chicklet keyboard and tape cassette drive.. hmmmm...

Message #4372950

Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:27:56 -0000
Stay away from my old machines! (I have to tell my wife the same thing... She thinks they just take up space. Feh.)

Message #4372912

Mon, 27 Aug 2018 14:53:25 -0000
>I've got an Apple II.. and no you cannot have it. I bet Ragnar has one >or two hanging around too. If I was going to raid Ragnar's collection (which would be dangerous considering he's more heavily armed than a third world country) I wouldn't be interested in anything Apple ... I'd go for the PET, which would be gutted and turned into a Raspberry PET, or the H-89, which would be downgraded to an H-19.

Message #4372905

Mon, 27 Aug 2018 14:40:28 -0000
heheh. I had a Franklin Ace 1000 from 1982. But I picked up an Apple II along

Message #4372900

Mon, 27 Aug 2018 14:19:02 -0000
There isn't a day that goes by that I don't regret selling my Apple IIgs system before I left for college. I had built it up to rival the 386/486 equivilants, and gave awey a ton of software which included a particular BBS software that I was very involved with. I miss Guy T. Rice. Lost track of him after he left Mankato, MN. Ah, nostalgia strikes again.

Message #4372890

Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:54:40 -0000
I've got an Apple II.. and no you cannot have it. I bet Ragnar has one or two hanging around too.

Message #4372463

Fri, 24 Aug 2018 22:28:27 -0000
This is pretty cool. A bunch of fairly well known retro computing enthusiasts (including The 8-Bit Guy) got hold of an empty Apple ][ case, and each took turns improving on the idea of turning it into a working Raspberry Pi based machine. [ https://wn.nr/C2nHSr ] Even better, they're now going to give it away to a randomly selected viewer. Follow the link above to enter (or to just watch the videos). I had thought of doing that exact project, but I didn't want to pay the increasingly significant amount of money required to get even a broken Apple ][. Glad to see someone else did it.

Message #4367785

Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:34:31 -0000
stem/calyx, anode/cathode, tomayto/tomahto, whatever

Message #4367567

Mon, 30 Jul 2018 19:56:25 -0000
Not sure why you'd anodize your pot... I guess if you were trying to connect it to something it might make some sense.

Message #4367549

Mon, 30 Jul 2018 18:42:57 -0000
Anodized Joint Connection

Message #4366978

Fri, 27 Jul 2018 19:59:35 -0000

No, I want to be the Atlanta Journal Constitution:

[ http://photos.citadel.org/2016/IMG_20160224_190923.jpg ]

Although I think the American Jewish Congress is a customer in one of our data centers. When I walk past the rack that says "AJC" I wonder why I don't see any of my stuff in there.

Message #4366501

Wed, 25 Jul 2018 22:38:00 -0000
Why would you want to be the American Jewish Congress?

Message #4366496

Wed, 25 Jul 2018 21:29:11 -0000
And there might just be some merit to having a username (and by extension, email address) that people aren't just going to be able to guess. If they want to find you they can look in the !@##$^%&^*^%#$@ directory. I was 'ajc' *everywhere* from the early 1980's until 2001, when I took a job with some directory nazis who insisted on first initial last name convention.

Message #4362545

Fri, 06 Jul 2018 05:40:01 -0000

First come, first served. Should be the rule of the day. - so saith ax25. 4, but who is counting.

Message #4360435

Fri, 22 Jun 2018 18:50:38 -0000
Aah"Aahz." "Oz?" "No relation."

Message #4360425

Fri, 22 Jun 2018 18:07:27 -0000
I just use my callsign in most cases. I think the shortest user name I ever had was "saf2".

Message #4360403

Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:37:49 -0000
Heh. I've been logging in to computers as 'ajc' for about 35 years but I never worked for Bell Labs. Respect the unsung heroes!

Message #4360206

Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:25:20 -0000
Three letter usernames.... Awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4lDvkAFyps

Message #4358176

Tue, 12 Jun 2018 03:06:18 -0000

I had a gig doing Clipper programming back in the day for a company that was a middle man for nuts, bolts and screws. Not sure if it was DBase II before they moved to Pervasive on the Novell server or not.

Message #4354880

Thu, 31 May 2018 15:43:59 -0000
Great demo, but that guy really shouldn't have a ponytail.

Message #4352709

Sat, 19 May 2018 20:57:45 -0000
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EWQYAfuMYw

Message #4347990

Fri, 27 Apr 2018 17:50:47 -0000
I had a friend whose company was "Lasser, Stern, Kinder and Company" - His last name was Lasser. Stern was his wife's maiden name. Kinder is kids in German.....

Message #4347773

Thu, 26 Apr 2018 22:42:17 -0000
The Z-80 CPUs, the 8 inch floppies, the big clunky serial terminals, the joy of CP/M ... man, that was *living*. Then again ... so was watching Galaxy Quest.

Message #4347747

Thu, 26 Apr 2018 21:04:26 -0000
25 years ago.> Pretty much.

Message #4347687

Thu, 26 Apr 2018 19:49:22 -0000
So, you're saying that dBase-II was the Galaxy Quest of database platforms? ;)

Message #4347615

Thu, 26 Apr 2018 14:02:33 -0000
I did quite a bit of work with dBase many years ago. Thanks for the blast from the past.

Message #4347501

Wed, 25 Apr 2018 21:02:11 -0000
Trivia bit of the day: Most oldsters remember "dBase-II" from Ashton-Tate. There was never a dBase-I; the "II" bit was made up by George Tate to give the name some additional gravitas. Some people know that. What fewer know is that there was never anyone named "Ashton" -- that was also made up by George Tate to give the company name some additional gravitas. Gosh I miss my S-100.

Message #4347225

Tue, 24 Apr 2018 15:07:45 -0000
Not quite ANCIENT, but I am having trouble parting with my grape iMac. My older daughter had actually convinced me to get rid of it until I realized there were pictures on it I might not want getting out if somebody booted it up. Artistic pictures, not a huge deal, except that my resume is also on the hard drive. Now I have to remember how to open the darn thing up.

Message #4347027

Mon, 23 Apr 2018 14:03:47 -0000
>I owned both. Actually liked running the 99 better (real keyboard, >sound, sprites), but there was something about a sub $50 computer >that just had to be experienced. I moved to the '99 from a big clunky S-100 machine running CP/M. Sometimes I went back to the S-100 because the '99 just wasn't robust enough. Later I got a Commodore 64 which carried all of my computing needs for years. Sinclair looks interesting now but at the time I just sort of wrote it off because in my mind I had a "real computer". Some might not be aware that it earned a reputation as a "doorstop" not simply because they looked like doorstops -- at one time, Commodore ran a promotion where they gave a $100 credit towards the purchase of a Commodore 64 if you sent them any old computer; they ended up with a warehouse full of Sinclairs, and they really did end up using them around the office as doorstops. Nowadays all of our computers are powerful and robust ... and we miss "real" computers. :(

Message #4341220

Tue, 20 Mar 2018 02:35:32 -0000

Mon Jan 08 2018 05:29:58 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

A lot of this retro stuff makes me want to find an old Sinclair just to experience it once. My "really bad computer" from that era was a TI-99/4A so it's probably just as awful.

I guess most of it is just nostalgia. I don't miss my TI or feel nostalgic about it. I do feel that way about my S-100 CP/M system, but since that type of system was usually experienced through a terminal it's easily reproduced.

I owned both. Actually liked running the 99 better (real keyboard, sound, sprites), but there was something about a sub $50 computer that just had to be experienced.

If you run the android favor of phone, you can get ZedEx and get a good feel for it (pretty realistic - apart from waiting 6 minutes to load a 16Kb program from tape), and experiencing the ram pack wobble. Even the membrane super loaded up (multiple keyword per button) keyboard is available for your torture.

Message #4328888

Thu, 11 Jan 2018 20:23:23 -0000

Fri Jan 05 2018 08:41:04 AM EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

Hm... I wonder if there's a community of Citadelians who might take interest in creating door applications for terminal amusement.

Hope that comes with good life insurance...

Message #4328833

Thu, 11 Jan 2018 13:23:51 -0000
If I were a serious instructor of software engineering, I would embrace these old machines (perhaps via emulator) and use them for instruction. Because I think they're second to nothing else out there for learning how to do this stuff well.

Message #4328442

Mon, 08 Jan 2018 22:29:58 -0000

Zeddyfox! Looks cool. Might need to get the old TS-1000 working again.

A lot of this retro stuff makes me want to find an old Sinclair just to experience it once. My "really bad computer" from that era was a TI-99/4A so it's probably just as awful.

I guess most of it is just nostalgia. I don't miss my TI or feel nostalgic about it. I do feel that way about my S-100 CP/M system, but since that type of system was usually experienced through a terminal it's easily reproduced.

Message #4327884

Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:41:04 -0000
Hm... I wonder if there's a community of Citadelians who might take interest in creating door applications for terminal amusement.

Message #4326319

Sat, 23 Dec 2017 04:47:13 -0000

This probably does not go here, but thought I might share it:

http://sshtron.zachlatta.com/

Tron via ssh :-)

I know we lost doors, but thought it might give some folks a sense of nostalgia. Not from the - "oh this is immediately cool" factor, but more from the - "Oh, crap... nobody else is here and I have to invite someone via some other means to play" factor.

Not saying the second way of looking at things is bad. In fact I feel it is good as it does not come from (at least at first) from an - "I want to exploit you for data and money" - angle. It would seem to come from a - "I built something that I think would be fun" - angle. Something that would suggest altruism (kinda like the good folks here at Uncensored).

Message #4323295

Fri, 01 Dec 2017 06:06:21 -0000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4PRiQq5VZs

Zeddyfox! Looks cool. Might need to get the old TS-1000 working again.

Message #4288478

Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:37:46 -0000
I guess there are enough Sinclair emulators out there to make the program usable by anyone with the inclination to do so.

Message #4283648

Wed, 19 Jul 2017 18:06:49 -0000
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/17/radiohead_hides_zx_spectrum_app_in_ok _computer_rerelease/

Message #4274852

Sun, 04 Jun 2017 18:36:27 -0000
So it's basically a one port terminal server. :) Nicely done. But in the tradition of retro mods, it isn't complete until it's placed inside an adorable little model of a Hayes Smartmodem case, similar to the way people put their Commodore 64 SD-card drives into cases that look like tiny 1541's.

Message #4274829

Sun, 04 Jun 2017 17:10:58 -0000
Just what everyone needs to get their old systems some internet access.... http://biosrhythm.com/?page_id=1453

Message #4271100

Mon, 22 May 2017 17:25:36 -0000

No, but here is a link to the service manual:

http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%20Computer%202%20NTSC%20Service%20Manual%20%2826-3134%20%26%2026-3136%29%20%28Tandy%29.pdf

Another guy says to re-seat the G.I.M.E. chip and gives some other possible fixes here:

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Repairing-A-Defective-TRS-80-CoCo-3-Color-Computer-EASY-/10000000002136630/g.html

Sun May 21 2017 11:35:31 AM EDT from alex222 @ Uncensored

I have a Tandy coco that won't boot. It just shows garbage on the screen. I think it's the rom but I don't know. Can someone tell me what it is?

Message #4270839

Sun, 21 May 2017 15:35:31 -0000

I have a Tandy coco that won't boot. It just shows garbage on the screen. I think it's the rom but I don't know. Can someone tell me what it is?

Message #4270838

Sun, 21 May 2017 15:33:22 -0000

I have a tandy coco that

Message #4266353

Tue, 02 May 2017 14:01:15 -0000
Yes, and archivists do exactly that.

Message #4266259

Tue, 02 May 2017 02:28:37 -0000
This begs an interesting question -- would rotating/flipping old magnetic media periodically help the longevity of said media?

Message #4266070

Mon, 01 May 2017 13:31:34 -0000
If the earth's magnetic field doesn't do them in, print through will. :) Nowadays, the popular storage medium for retro enthusiasts is an SD Card attached to a controller that emulates the target host's native interface. Wouldn't you like to send *that* back in time 35 years to yourself.

Message #4265026

Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:43:27 -0000
I had hundreds of tapes for my PET. I enentually (way down the road) got an SFD-1001 floppy drive, which was a whopping 1mb! I was able to fit ALL the contents of all the tapes onto a single floppy.

Message #4264857

Thu, 27 Apr 2017 02:30:18 -0000

I am more of a cassette and Kansas City Standard format man myself. Just kidding of course. I used whatever "standard" that Clive Sinclair and his buddies came up with. I even spent extra on the tapes that had the little reel to reel in the plastic case. Still have some of them. Should really transfer that before the earths magnetic field does them in. Damn magnetic field. Curse thee.

Message #4263552

Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:47:54 -0000
"Just like the one Perry Mason used in his car..."

Message #4263544

Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:23:39 -0000
My son when he was little came across the payphone I have in the basement (a rotary one!).... He asked me if it was an old cellphone.

Message #4263517

Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:54:20 -0000
ooooohh, that was a big one, even 25+ years ago when my best friend and I were "those two guys with that damn camera." "Are you filming?" "No, we're videotaping." And now, even the tape is gone.

Message #4263088

Wed, 19 Apr 2017 22:36:39 -0000

I hate auto save of any application, Google Drive uses auto save. Many times when working on something I like to "save as" using version numbers. With auto save it is more work to copy a document, rename it, and work on it.

Why do they say "Dial a phone?"

And I hate when people use "filming" for their cell phone. Film is a chemical process, video is an electronic process. Fuckers changing the language, anybody who uses "film" when they are shooting video are worse than Zuckerberg. (yeah I said it.)

Message #4263072

Wed, 19 Apr 2017 21:00:39 -0000
You gave me an idea -- for my next application with a save icon in it, I'm going to use reel-to-reel tape instead of a floppy disk. ;)

Message #4262987

Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:58:17 -0000

Today, there are already people who ask "why does the 'Save' icon look like that?" because they've never seen a 3.5" floppy disk.

10-20 years from now, when all storage is solid state and HDD's are a relic of history, there will be people who ask "why is it called a 'disk' ... and why is the symbol for it a cylinder?"

Message #4262963

Wed, 19 Apr 2017 14:40:17 -0000
I remember those model IIIs. Fun stuff. Built a database engine in BASIC.

Message #4262513

Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:52:08 -0000

Yeah. my trash-80 model III had 5.25s.

That could hold a whole bunch of games and then you could turn them over and use the other side for a bunch more games... Then came things like colors and graphics, and suddenly a game was more than 10kbytes :)

Message #4262222

Sun, 16 Apr 2017 04:07:07 -0000
I started out with computers on the S-100 platform as well, when I was a very small nerd. A local company called SPS built them as white boxes. They were typically paired with off-the-shelf terminals and printers. The computer Ragnar is thinking of is probably one of them. It always felt like a "real computer" long after it was obsolete.

Message #4261507

Wed, 12 Apr 2017 15:48:07 -0000
I used a TRS-80 Model 2, which had 8" disks. I also used an S100 based machine that had an 8" as well, but the specific model escapes me at the moment.

Message #4261219

Tue, 11 Apr 2017 20:38:22 -0000
At 48, I'm still one of the few people I know who has actually used 8" floppy disks. Friend's mom worked at a university as a secretary on an IBM word processor that consisted of an L-shaped desk with a green screen monitor, Selectric-style keyboard, and an 8" drive. (Nobody else wanted it, and she felt guilty paying only the minimum bid, so she paid five bucks for it at the auction.) Don't even think I have pictures any more, and certainly don't remember the model. But boy, was that thing a conversation piece.

Message #4227670

Fri, 07 Apr 2017 02:29:40 -0000
A friend of mine got hired by Exatron. Yes, *that* Exatron.

Message #4227444

Thu, 06 Apr 2017 20:31:16 -0000
I spent a lot of time with 9 tracks.... The vacuum autoloaders were very convenient.

Message #4226991

Thu, 06 Apr 2017 12:43:21 -0000

Two old 9 track tape drives. One of them is a reel to reel with automatic tape loading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEL8wnW5uvs

Message #4220004

Tue, 28 Mar 2017 16:24:00 -0000
I have an old Sony trinitron monitor in my garage. It's insanely high quality and still has a stunning picture. It's the monitor I would have dreamed of owning in the 1980's and early 1990's. It would have been the ultimate display for my C-64, or my Amiga, or even for the first couple of IBM clones that I owned (which ran various flavors of unix, thank you very much). Actually, now that I think about it, these are the same monitors we used in smaller television studios. They were great for editing, or as preview/program monitors if space was tight. I need to find a CGA or EGA card that fits in a PCI-e slot!

Ancient computers on-line

Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:10:10 -0000

TWENEX.org (TOPS-20, simulator) www.twenex.org

UP (ITS, simulator (on a Raspberry Pi!) http://up.update.uu.se

Polarhome.com (various, real hardware & simulator) www.polarhome.com

Museo dell’Informatica Funzionante (RT-11, OpenVMS, real hardware & simulator) http://museo.freaknet.org/en/archivio-2/computer-online/

Living Computers (various, real hardware & simulator) http://www.livingcomputers.org/Discover/At-The-Museum/VintageComputers.aspx

Message #4198322

Fri, 17 Feb 2017 14:50:17 -0000

Ironic ... considering that this room is "Ancient Computing" ... and back in the days of Real Computers nothing was internationalized yet.

Message #4195894

Tue, 14 Feb 2017 18:34:46 -0000
> 2017-02-09 19:43 from zooer @uncnsrd >Why did Chrome ask me if I want to translate this page? yeah, it does that for me too - Spanish to English on pages that don't contain a word of Spanish.

Message #4194540

Mon, 13 Feb 2017 17:37:55 -0000

+196 FTW and reuse rights

Message #4192073

Sat, 11 Feb 2017 15:51:21 -0000

I still want to know why it asks to translate this page.

Message #4192072

Sat, 11 Feb 2017 15:50:50 -0000

So why doesn't this option offer to display images within messages on the text client?

# If IMAGECMD is defined, users can hit 'I' to view images attached to a
# message. (Do not enable this command for public clients.)
#
# Possible image viewers follow
# xdg-open - on Linux systems with the Portland API's installed, this ought
# to open the image in the user's preferred viewer.

imagecmd=xdg-open "%s"

Message #4191924

Sat, 11 Feb 2017 14:54:02 -0000

An oddly shaped teapot?

Message #4191707

Fri, 10 Feb 2017 23:25:04 -0000
Can you see that?

Message #4191706

Fri, 10 Feb 2017 23:24:55 -0000
________________$$$$ ______________$$____$$ ______________$$____$$ ______________$$____$$ ______________$$____$$ ______________$$____$$ __________$$$$$$____$$$$$$ ________$$____$$____$$____$$$$ ________$$____$$____$$____$$__$$ $$$$$$__$$____$$____$$____$$____$$ $$____$$$$________________$$____$$ $$______$$______________________$$ __$$____$$______________________$$ ___$$$__$$______________________$$ ____$$__________________________$$ _____$$$________________________$$ ______$$______________________$$$ _______$$$____________________$$ ________$$____________________$$ _________$$$________________$$$ __________$$________________$$ __________$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Message #4190596

Fri, 10 Feb 2017 00:49:53 -0000

TO THE TEXT CLIENT USERS: THERE IS A PICTURE IN THIS MESSAGE, IT IS A SCREENSHOT OF THE TRANSLATION MESSAGE. YOU CAN'T SEE IT. hahahahahahahahahah!

Yes I am shouting.

Message #4190593

Fri, 10 Feb 2017 00:43:12 -0000

Why did Chrome ask me if I want to translate this page?

(Polish to English)

Message #4190518

Thu, 09 Feb 2017 20:42:20 -0000
http://www.reactivemicro.com/product_info.php?products_id=104 PigFont - alternate CharGen ROM for the ][ or ][+

Message #4129037

Wed, 19 Oct 2016 21:09:10 -0000
Random tidbit: One of my favorite YouTubers is "The 8-Bit Guy" [ https://www.youtube.com/user/adric22 ] I wouldn't call him hardcore (he doesn't have an IMSAI or an Altair) but it's fun to watch his 1980's retro presentations. Some of his videos go into detail about how that era's technology worked, and he also brings out some obscure stuff.

Message #4121831

Thu, 29 Sep 2016 18:59:51 -0000
Wow, a wall of ASCII gobbledy gook for those of us using a text client.

Message #4121805

Thu, 29 Sep 2016 16:58:52 -0000
Winning! I kind of wish I could take my 2016 level of proficiency back to 1985 and write some really killer software for the Commodore 64. I knew a bit of assembler back then, which was more than most kids my age, but it sure would have been nice to write software the way the pros did then. I was just learning C at the time and didn't have a C compiler for the Commodore 64, which was one of the reasons I left the platform.

Message #4121679

Thu, 29 Sep 2016 06:38:13 -0000

My father recently showed me one of those Additor Sliderulers. Fascinating stuff.

This one is interesting, too:

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/this-old-ass-commodore-64-is-still-being-used-to-run-an-1787196319

Message #4121257

Wed, 28 Sep 2016 01:23:02 -0000
It all depends upon how you define work.

Message #4121230

Tue, 27 Sep 2016 22:34:50 -0000

That didn't work.

Message #4121228

Tue, 27 Sep 2016 22:33:27 -0000

More of my father's things....I remember playing with this, it was an adding machine, you stuck a stylus in the numbers and rotated them to get the result.

According to this page: http://www.xnumber.com/xnumber/David_Riches.htm

This is a Sterling Dial-a-matic adding machine (No 567 five digit desk top model) with its original packaging and stylus. This is a cheap plastic machine which came in a number of versions, some only four digit, and some combined with a pencil box. Sterling Plastics were suppliers of educational items including also cheap slide rules and drawing templates, so I guess these were aimed at school children.

My father also had a mini abacus

Message #4120769

Tue, 27 Sep 2016 02:41:07 -0000
Ah the fun of the debate - C-Net Posts and threads and Citadel Rooms and Posts...

Message #4120357

Mon, 26 Sep 2016 15:56:08 -0000
I can't find it anywhere on the Internet, but there was a device called "VICNET" which allowed up to eight Commodore computers to share the peripherals on a serial bus. It was often found in school computer labs for simple sharing of disk drives and printers. One of those, plus an SD2IEC, would have been the ultimate file server. Imagine running a C-Net on that! (C-Net would need to be modified for multi-node access, of course.)

Message #4120348

Mon, 26 Sep 2016 15:29:23 -0000
For the number of times I wrote a sysop and told them to get a fooking SFD for their C_Net bulleting boards when they ran out of space and I wanted to post, I should get that and frame it..

Message #4120280

Mon, 26 Sep 2016 11:51:55 -0000
All over the retro community, a device called "SD2IEC" is showing up. It appears to be a device only available in board form (not a finished appliance) that contains a filesystem driver for a MicroSD card, and interfaces with the Commodore 64's IEC ("serial bus") protocol. The result, of course, is the effect of having an obscenely large solid state disk attached to the Commodore 64. This is fascinating. I wish I could send one 30 years back in time to myself.

Message #4119007

Wed, 21 Sep 2016 09:33:42 -0000

Tue Sep 20 2016 21:34:30 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

What's interesting is that these are not D10's, but instead they are D20's labeled 0-9 and then 0-9 again.

And you seem to have placed a D2 next to it :)

Doubles the size of the entropy pool....

Message #4118945

Wed, 21 Sep 2016 01:34:30 -0000

What's interesting is that these are not D10's, but instead they are D20's labeled 0-9 and then 0-9 again.

And you seem to have placed a D2 next to it :)

Message #4118232

Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:29:22 -0000

Salt? No, that is cotton. Coin was for scale.

Message #4118230

Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:08:48 -0000

Brilliant! The salt and coin add a rather occult touch.

Message #4118214

Sat, 17 Sep 2016 15:56:30 -0000

Here are the easier to read instructions.

Message #4118211

Sat, 17 Sep 2016 15:30:56 -0000

We are going through some of my father's belongings. Found a random number generator.

The instructions were difficult to read as they it was a very small font printed on a 2"x1" piece of paper which had slightly faded. On one side was English, the other side was Japanese.
If I had to guess how old it is I would think it is from the 1950s at the latest the early 60s.

$3.29, including shipping from Japan.

They look like DnD dice.

Message #4111926

Wed, 07 Sep 2016 04:58:51 -0000

Here is a decent article on the flyback discharge via the anode on a CRT (using the screwdriver method):

http://www.h-i-r.net/2009/12/flyback-transformers-and-crt-discharge.html

Message #4109686

Fri, 02 Sep 2016 13:42:34 -0000
Well yes, but I don't know where to find the chargey part of the CRT to touch the screwdriver.

Message #4109243

Thu, 01 Sep 2016 12:34:41 -0000

Damn it, is that what I have been doing wrong?

Message #4109094

Thu, 01 Sep 2016 04:32:50 -0000

Big screwdriver. Just hold on to the insulated end.

Message #4101089

Tue, 09 Aug 2016 23:43:36 -0000
When a $30 RPi can run Linux just as well (or better) as an old computer, the whole "Linux giving old hardware new life" routine becomes a bit less valuable. It's probably better at this point to have classic computers set up with the operating systems they shipped with and some software that was popular at the time. Or gut it and go with the fishbowl. But I don't know how to safely discharge a CRT.

Message #4100150

Mon, 08 Aug 2016 05:51:36 -0000

No fishbowl for the Mac? I suppose you can still boot Linux, so you should not do it.

Message #4099156

Fri, 05 Aug 2016 21:05:24 -0000
If I somehow made it past the defenses at Ragnar's house, and was willing to gut a vintage computer, I'd probably go for the PET. I might even keep its original screen and wire it down to the composite video output of the Pi. No go on any early Mac, though; there's just not enough room inside.

Message #4094045

Fri, 29 Jul 2016 11:29:06 -0000
And I forgot the pit traps.

Message #4093674

Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:01:34 -0000
>I have one of those. You may NOT disassmble it. NO DISASSEMBLE! NO DISASSEMBLE!! I wouldn't tear down a working Apple II anyway.

Message #4093558

Thu, 28 Jul 2016 14:59:41 -0000
And you haven't even gone through the interior defenses yet....

Message #4093557

Thu, 28 Jul 2016 14:54:34 -0000
Actually - I think we both know someone who's home we could raid to get all soerts of old PCs.. We would have to get past the barbed wire, landmines, gun turrets, machine gun nests, mortar range and rabid guard dog to get inside.

Message #4093556

Thu, 28 Jul 2016 14:52:39 -0000
I have one of those. You may NOT disassmble it. But they aren't that hard to find on ebay etc...

Message #4092023

Fri, 22 Jul 2016 15:01:46 -0000
I'd like to find a old broken Apple II computer, completely gut it, and put my Raspberry Pi rig inside it. Unfortunately old Apples are now "vintage" enough that even the broken ones cost a fortune on ebay. So if I do the project I'll probably have to end up custom-building a case out of wood or something. I want the old style from the 8-bit era with the keyboard built into the case and the monitor sitting on top.

Message #4088967

Tue, 12 Jul 2016 03:07:46 -0000

I still like to fire up the "Apple II" X Screensaver.

Just did a search and turned up this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNXbtDJz6f8

Shell using the Apple II screensaver module.... I figure most of you have already found that.

Great fun for short output. I think it is my new shell for keeping an eye on long running processes. Uptime was fun. dmesg was painful.

Message #4084970

Thu, 07 Jul 2016 01:40:09 -0000

I had also run xclock over a remote X session from a friends house at 9600 baud on packet. Somehow I thought the second hand would sweep nicely. I was quite wrong about that :-) Needs a bit more bandwidth to do a remote X session.

When I first had access to X, in the early 1990's before the Linux desktop was nice and polished, xclock made me feel nostalgic because it reminded me of a full-screen analog clock program that I had played with on an Apple II years beforehand. Those 280x192 "hi res" screens were something else :)

Message #4074429

Tue, 07 Jun 2016 05:12:05 -0000

Stop by and ask questions. You might be able to put up some radiation unit yourself from the back corner of your parcel of land to the tall tower and have a shack yourself. It is a good way to get away / and or share when the urchins are old enough. RF can be fun. Even part 15 devices when put in proper enclosures and up a tower can extend your fun.

I learned most of my ancient computing from those that had learned before me. It never hurts to ask, even if they turn out to be younger, they might know something you don't, or you could end up elmering them in some knowledge that you have a bit more of.

Message #4069912

Mon, 30 May 2016 14:55:37 -0000
...or to piss off the people next door by putting up a gigantic radio tower.

Message #4038415

Fri, 25 Mar 2016 15:04:08 -0000
...or for TEOTWAWKI....

Message #4036072

Wed, 23 Mar 2016 02:56:17 -0000

Well, you can still have both, ya know, for when the fiber goes dark.

Message #4035706

Tue, 22 Mar 2016 13:58:24 -0000

Heh. I did occasionally think about getting into packet because I thought at the time it would be the only way I'd ever be able to tie in to the Internet from home. Here we are 20 years later and I have fiber optic cable in my house.

Message #4016279

Tue, 23 Feb 2016 06:55:28 -0000

Having both in the early days of BBS / dial-up Inet was fun. I remember downloading a picture of someones baby via TCP/IP over packet at 9600 baud when the dial up ISP was not working from our house. Fun stuff. Stared the download and went to bed. By morning, voila, baby picture.

I had also run xclock over a remote X session from a friends house at 9600 baud on packet. Somehow I thought the second hand would sweep nicely. I was quite wrong about that :-) Needs a bit more bandwidth to do a remote X session. I did find that any curses program would work well though. The local library had a curses interface that worked quite well (even on 1200 baud packet radio).

Message #4016249

Tue, 23 Feb 2016 05:04:49 -0000

Right ... well ... I didn't have an antenna but I had a phone line.

Message #4010956

Wed, 10 Feb 2016 04:50:37 -0000

I was more of a YAPP man myself. But then, I am just an amateur.

Message #4004104

Thu, 28 Jan 2016 14:34:07 -0000
> 2016-01-27 19:00 from IGnatius T Foobar @uncnsrd >Only for the amateurs. Those with real computers used UUCP :) > Ah.... for the days of UUCICO....

Message #4003575

Thu, 28 Jan 2016 00:00:45 -0000

Only for the amateurs. Those with real computers used UUCP :)

Message #4001652

Tue, 26 Jan 2016 18:45:06 -0000
I recall seeing that. Although I don't recall if I pointed it out. Man, that was the way to transfer files over a phone's modem.

Message #3999981

Fri, 22 Jan 2016 15:32:41 -0000
I'm not sure if anyone pointed this out, but Chuck Forsberg, the author of ZMODEM, died last September. [ http://tinyurl.com/pdkc676 ] To have been a pioneer...

Message #3999775

Thu, 21 Jan 2016 15:40:30 -0000

It would have been interesting if the "MSX" architecture had taken hold globally. It was popular in Asia but not really much elsewhere. MSX was an early attempt at an open standard microcomputer architecture, and it was built around the Z-80 processor. Lots of manufacturers made computers that used the standard.

Yes, Microsoft was involved on the software side, but I would imagine the whole industry would have taken a very different path if IBM had not been involved.

Re: Just a thought

Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:19:22 -0000

Wed Jan 20 2016 08:41:31 AM EST from dothebart @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Just a thought

Yea, first electric car was in the 1940'ies afair?

I was asking "hubertus" a rhetorical question in his question about citadel being old technology.

Re: Just a thought

Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:41:31 -0000

Tue Jan 19 2016 11:27:13 EST from zooer @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Just a thought

Isn't Tesla using ancient electric car technology?

Yea, first electric car was in the 1940'ies afair?

Re: Just a thought

Tue, 19 Jan 2016 22:33:18 -0000
>isn't using Citadel itself ancient computing ? I would guess that a technology that continues to be maintained and updated doesn't count as ancient computing. Using the text client sure is "old-skool" though!

Re: Just a thought

Tue, 19 Jan 2016 16:27:13 -0000

Isn't Tesla using ancient electric car technology?

Just a thought

Tue, 19 Jan 2016 16:21:00 -0000

isn't using Citadel itself ancient computing ?

Message #3997617

Mon, 11 Jan 2016 22:05:19 -0000

definitely!

Message #3997612

Mon, 11 Jan 2016 21:34:23 -0000
They really ought to stop putting tuners into televisions. They might also consider offering them without speakers.

Message #3996733

Fri, 08 Jan 2016 13:19:52 -0000

the screen we have (it's not a tv since my husband actually screwed up the receiver so you can't connect it to cable/satellite/whatever) has a USB input.

Message #3994008

Fri, 01 Jan 2016 07:18:06 -0000
Most home streaming devices have USB slots for local storage, and many can connect to a DNLA server if you have one.

Message #3993500

Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:53:36 -0000
Smart TVs...

Message #3993487

Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:45:10 -0000
My ROKU box has an USB slot allowing me to play mp3, wav, and a whole host of video formats quite nicely from my flash-drive.

Message #3993472

Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:43:28 -0000

Well, at least they can play _local_ mp3's instead of just insisting that your private music has to be stored on s.b. elses computer aka cloud.

Re: List of computers you have owned or used.

Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:48:12 -0000
It's pretty sad that Squeezebox is already considered an "old" device. I suppose the arrival of Chromecasts and Rokus and Amazon-whatevers at cheap prices have made Squeezebox the ancient prototype at this point.

Re: List of computers you have owned or used.

Fri, 04 Dec 2015 05:25:59 -0000

Wed Dec 02 2015 08:26:47 AM EST from dothebart @ Uncensored Subject: Re: List of computers you have owned or used.

they recently found out not many people were moving to the UE-Radio, therefore they started to continue the logitech media server...

So, I upgraded mine once more. One raspi with squeezeplug attached to the hifi, and a Squeezebox Radio.

Probably not ancient computing, but the Squeezebox Radio I have from 2009 is a bit long in the tooth. I wondered why the radio lists were still updated when I did searches. Thanks for the heads up dothebart.

Message #3984255

Fri, 04 Dec 2015 05:20:28 -0000

I should probably dust off the TS-1000 and have my son compare it to the RPi for ease of use :-) Good luck on the antenna farm rebuilds (both of you).

Message #3983404

Thu, 03 Dec 2015 06:55:57 -0000
Heh. Winter here is "collecting bits and scraps" so when Spring arrives here on the mountain we will start assembling the 6 meter array - pair of 4-el TriYagis at about 25 ft. Elevation here is 2,675 ft ASL so I really don't need to do the "giant tower" thing the way I did back in NJ. Oh well. Fun !! 73 --Vince, K2NE

Re: List of computers you have owned or used.

Wed, 02 Dec 2015 15:21:59 -0000
Sweet. My winter is probably going to be taken up with rebuilding my HF antennas. I had a fan dipole setup in the treetops. Dirt cheap, but when we had an ice storm last weekend, it was pretty badly decimated. Ah well, I'm only out about $20 so I guess I shouldn't complain too much.

73 de KR0L

Re: List of computers you have owned or used.

Wed, 02 Dec 2015 13:26:47 -0000

they recently found out not many people were moving to the UE-Radio, therefore they started to continue the logitech media server...

So, I upgraded mine once more. One raspi with squeezeplug attached to the hifi, and a Squeezebox Radio.

Re: List of computers you have owned or used.

Wed, 02 Dec 2015 06:16:14 -0000

Tue Dec 01 2015 11:44:26 PM EST from jgoerzen @ Uncensored Subject: Re: List of computers you have owned or used.

Thanks! My boys go in phases. Right now we're in a "fun with the printer" phase. Sometimes they enjoy model trains or other things...

My raspberry pis are a cheap whole-house music system, described here: http://changelog.complete.org/archives/9280-sound-players-adventures-with-ampache-mpd-pulseaudio-raspberry-pi-and-l ogitech-media-server

Incidentally, I'm going to guess from your nick that you're a ham. KR0L here, and I run an APRS digi/i-gate from an old Linux notebook. Used to run an AX.25 node+BBS but discontinued it due to lack of interest.

Right there with you John. I run a discontinued squezebox :

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeezebox_(network_music_player)#Squeezebox_Radio_.28September_2009.29

My call is KB0GBJ. Good to meet you KR0L (John). I am getting back in to doing some i-gate stuff and APRS soon, just need some down time this winter to solder up some kits and have some fun with that.

Re: List of computers you have owned or used.

Wed, 02 Dec 2015 04:44:26 -0000
Thanks! My boys go in phases. Right now we're in a "fun with the printer" phase. Sometimes they enjoy model trains or other things... My raspberry pis are a cheap whole-house music system, described here: http://changelog.complete.org/archives/9280-sound-players-adventures-with-ampache-mpd-pulseaudio-raspberry-pi-and-l ogitech-media-server Incidentally, I'm going to guess from your nick that you're a ham. KR0L here, and I run an APRS digi/i-gate from an old Linux notebook. Used to run an AX.25 node+BBS but discontinued it due to lack of interest.

Re: List of computers you have owned or used.

Wed, 02 Dec 2015 03:23:59 -0000

You sound like a pretty cool dad John. My son is 13 and has a Raspberry Pi, but only digs it out on occasion. The Minecraft server interested him for a bit, and he stacked blocks in a spiral, but soon lost interest.

Re: List of computers you have owned or used.

Tue, 01 Dec 2015 21:37:36 -0000
Oh my, this will be scary. It spans 30 years.

First: TRS-80 CoCo II. Still a fond spot in my heart for it. Wrote about it at http://changelog.complete.org/archives/9269-my-boys-love-1986-computing I still have it.

Second: A PC/XT clone, one of those 4.77/7.16MHz jobs with a "turbo" button. 640K RAM, dual 360K drives, later upgraded with a 30MB HDD.

A 486SX/25. Not bad. I still have it. It ran Windows, then OS/2, then Linux, and still boots.

A 486DX2/66. Running FreeBSD, then Debian.

An old Thinkpad, unknown model, running FreeBSD.

An Alpha LX164 running Debian. Purchased roughly 1998.

A Dell Inspiron 7K. Heaviest laptop I ever owned.

Bought a Titanium Apple laptop at some point.   Ran Debian. Didn't last all that long.

Got an iMac around 2002.

Then various permutations of x86_64 workstations, store-bought or home-built, all running Debian.

A Thinkpad model or two, running Debian.

An EeePC. I donated it to the local Amateur Radio Club and it is now the APRS digipeater W0BZN.

Several Raspberry Pi devices.

Miscellaneous: Bought a LaserJet 6MP in 1997. Stopped using it last week, due to the failure of the Ethernet-Parallel interface box I was using. Printer was still working fine.

On 02/04/2015 12:01 AM, ax25 wrote:

Warning, TLDR and all that: more boring stuff to come (and I hope from you, the reader as well).

Apple II - 4th grade (school owned) - it lived on a cart and was wheeled from room to room in the school back then.

Some sort of teletype in the middle school days (school owned). I was allowed to be around when someone had it print snoopy in ascii. Not impressed at all :-)

Older brother aquires a TS-1000 on closeout at Montgomery Wards for around $30. He gives up on it and gives it to me. Score!
.. - long bit of learning to code / hack it (db9 for joystick), expansion bus projects...   Much fun to be had there. Still have that artifact and the shoe goo carved in to it db9 connector for a joystick port.

Apple II+ / IIe - High School (school owned). Did some interesting programming on them with sprites and basic. Was more fun, but not quite as fun as the TS-1000 as you only had so much time to hack away at them.

Heathkit ET-3400 trainer - High School electronics class (school owned)
http://retro-treasures.blogspot.com/2011/05/heathkit-et-3400-microprocessor-trainer.html

Later, a TI-99/4a - later high school (given by my grandfather). Grandpa had moved on to an IBM PC and gave me his TI-99/4A. Liked that thing for the extra bits that I could not buy (color, sound, etc)... Did some fine video and sound work on that thing. Fun, but slow machine.

An Amstrad PC-20 (8086 Amiga A500 looking thing) - it did run an emulators well and got me through college. An internal 3 1/2 720 and external 5 1/4 floppy. Word processor with spell check on the other disk was quite nice. It played Dead Smurf and Castle Wolfenstein quite well as I remember. Quite a change in my computing world. It became a workhorse, instead of an inspiration to do new stuff. Kinda sucked the life out of me :-(

Mostly boring stuff from there (apart from the can it run Linux purchases) which are now ancient history.

Re: IBM Model M

Sun, 01 Nov 2015 02:15:30 -0000

Yes, and it also qualifies you as the owner for Awesome Status. I only type on Model M keyboards.

IBM Model M

Sat, 31 Oct 2015 16:14:18 -0000

Does a Keyboard IBM Model M being manufactured on 1991-04-30 qualifiy for Ancient Computing ?Save to Drafts

Message #3955073

Fri, 14 Aug 2015 05:38:48 -0000

Or Contiki for the Trash80 (sorry)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contiki

Think it was ported, but can't seem to find it.

Message #3955072

Fri, 14 Aug 2015 05:31:02 -0000

How about zeddy fox?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4PRiQq5VZs

Message #3955049

Fri, 14 Aug 2015 02:24:56 -0000

That so doesn't count.

Message #3954492

Tue, 11 Aug 2015 08:40:30 -0000

lol. to be precise its using the TRS80 as a TTY for a raspi and use whatever terminal app there.

Message #3954477

Tue, 11 Aug 2015 04:23:04 -0000
Surf the web on a trash 80

Message #3950615

Tue, 21 Jul 2015 02:55:44 -0000

Back in the day, a chicklet keyboard would be considered an upgrade to a ZX81 or TS-1000 keyboard:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/ZX81_with_modified_keyboard.jpg

Membrane keyboards the (restive touch) of keyboards (i.e. worst).

Message #3950166

Fri, 17 Jul 2015 21:28:09 -0000
No, and that's why it doesn't deserve the name. It's the same generic touchscreen phone everyone else makes. I would have liked a phone with a nice keyboard on it :)

Message #3949629

Fri, 17 Jul 2015 02:39:42 -0000
Will the phone have a chicklet keyboard too??

Message #3948845

Thu, 16 Jul 2015 04:58:53 -0000
Awwww... IG.... and here I thought you would have an Altair Car Stereo. Disappointed I am.

Message #3948731

Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:24:29 -0000
Now this is just getting stupid. [ http://www.commodoresmart.com/?kid=6CHC4 ] The latest group of people to get their hands on the Commodore brand have decided to offer a brand new version of the Commodore PET. It's an ordinary Android smartphone that says "Commodore PET" on the bezel. That's all. Nothing else. I hope it has Bluetooth; I want to hook it up to my IMSAI Car Stereo.

Re: Interview with author/futurist Arthur C. Clarke, from an AT&T-MIT 1976

Sun, 03 May 2015 14:13:34 -0000
> 2015-05-03 01:31 from ax25 @uncnsrd >Subject: Re: Interview with author/futurist Arthur C. Clarke, from an AT&T-MIT 1976 >Arthur C. Clarke. Probably made some of the computing world >possible. He might not have, but probably did. Imagination is a >powerful thing. > 1945 Same guy - A. C. Clarke October 1945 "Can Rocket Stations Give Worldwide Radio Coverage?" A treatise on the use of geosynchronous orbit satellites for radio relay. Source: Wireless World; October 1945

Re: Interview with author/futurist Arthur C. Clarke, from an AT&T-MIT 1976

Sun, 03 May 2015 05:31:23 -0000

Arthur C. Clarke. Probably made some of the computing world possible. He might not have, but probably did. Imagination is a powerful thing.

Interview with author/futurist Arthur C. Clarke, from an AT&T-MIT 1976

Sat, 02 May 2015 00:43:41 -0000

Thanx zooer

Guys that a must watch

Interview with author/futurist Arthur C. Clarke, from an AT&T-MIT Conference, 1976

Tue Apr 07 2015 07:50:32 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1vQ_cB0f4w

Message #3905255

Tue, 07 Apr 2015 11:50:32 -0000

Message #3905251

Tue, 07 Apr 2015 11:41:03 -0000
Early computers. (another link in a long list of stories with early computers)

Message #3888562

Wed, 04 Mar 2015 19:16:38 -0000
Back in NJ many years ago my next-door neighbor wasn't a ham radio operator either. But he took great pains to explain the advantages of twin-lead to me (the ham operator) and how to properly mount it, route it, and keep it relatively "safe" from the "attacks" of weather. No ham operator. Ph.D. in Electronics Engineering, though...

Message #3888467

Wed, 04 Mar 2015 13:15:05 -0000
What is this mysterious "TV antenna" of which you speak? Some sort of newfangled way of transmitting video wirelessly? I think most folks had their first introduction to 300-75 ohm baluns when they got their first VCR. Twin lead was still widespread back then, and you needed one on each side of the VCR connection, which had only 75 ohm antenna connections. There was a flat style balun for the TV side, and an elbow style balun for the antenna connection. A few years later, everyone got cable and it became pointless. And it took at least another 15 years before the consumer electronics industry realized that, perhaps, putting line inputs for audio and video on *every* television is maybe a good idea after all. Speaking of ancient computing ... Commodore 1701 monitors with Y/C inputs even in the early 1980's ... for the win! Built like tanks and had a great picture. I may have mentioned this before ... on my commie I separated out the luminance pin from the video connector (ok I could have done this with a stock cable and just used one output, but I was a broke high school kid and I had DIN connectors and a soldering iron already on hand!) and ran it to a monochrome monitor. I used that for clear 80-column text while BBSing, and a color TV for games and other graphics. Quite a nice rig :) And yes, before cable came to town, we had an antenna on the roof with twin lead. It was installed like 99% of the homes in the world ... screw the cable onto the two terminals, drop it carelessly down the roof, and find a place to get it through the wall without doing too much damage. Like 99% of the homeowners in the world, my dad wasn't a ham operator.

Message #3887544

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 17:57:51 -0000
"Back in the day" (pre-1965ish) most TVs didn't have 75-ohm antenna inputs - just a pair of screws on an insulated block for twin lead. "Rabbit Ears" back then used twin lead for that reason. Outdoor antennas for TV used twin lead (300 ohm "ladder line"). Twin lead is maligned by many (non hams) for lack of understanding. For low loss at VHF/UHF it simply cannot be beaten, particularly for its low cost. The problem with twin lead is that the impedance is very easily disturbed by nearby metal objects (the mast on which the antenna is mounted) hence the need for (at least) six-inch standoffs to keep the cable away from the mast on its way down to the house. Getting it through the wall is another set of problems. Hence the development of the 300-ohm to 75-ohm balun adapter. Transformed the parallel feed (twin lead) to a coaxial feed (which is much easier to bring through a wall since the shielding inherent with coax cable handles the problem). Another balun at the TV (remember, this is back in the day) got you your twin-lead pigtails and a return to the balanced line 300-ohm cable those TVs "expected." So along came some brainiac who figured that building a balun drive point on the antenna itself would eliminate the need for the twin lead altogther, bringing us to the abomination known as 75 ohm coax cable for long runs from the antenna right to the TV. Good "on paper" but lousy in practice since just about *all* consumer grade 75 ohm coax is ***garbage***. At runs over 25 ft it starts getting horribly "lossy" unless you are using quality cable (hard to find in most locales and very expensive to the homeowner who just wants to "hook up the TV." In ham radio, we jump for joy at the prospect of "finding" spools of cable TV aluminum jacket hardline (75 ohm) since that stuff is (almost) as good as it gets for low-loss. There are better. They are usually at least a half-inch (or more) thick, difficult to handle mechanically, and an absolute pain in the ass when you go to install a connector on it. So the cable TV hardline is a "gold mine" to the VHF/UHF ham (6m through 1,296 Mhz). Low loss; easy to "find"; easy to handle; and most ham rigs handle 75 ohm without breaking a sweat (the 50 ohm ham rig, particularly in the period 1970-1995, is a myth - those things handled everything from roughly 40 ohms to roughly 100 ohms without a problem - that's why they had all those *tuning* controls!). Enough for now.... --K2NE

Message #3887541

Mon, 02 Mar 2015 17:36:52 -0000
The RF modulator has an interesting history. TI couldn't get their RF modulator design approved in time for the original TI-99 product launch. So they originally sold the machine with an included monitor -- basically a Sony television without a tuner. They eventually got the stamp of approval from the Federal Communications Communists, but the machine had already shipped, so they built the entire modulator into an outboard package. It ended up being a bit more bulky compared to the Atari/Commodore onboard 75 ohm RF output, but it was so wonderfully reusable. I always thought it was amusing to see that no one understood that the RF output of an Atari or Commodore computer was really just a 75 ohm antenna connection. Most people used an old television as a dedicated monitor, and they'd go from the computer to the "TV/Game" switchbox, then to a 300-to-75 ohm impedance transformer into the television. I simply bought an RCA-to-F-connector adapter (less than a dollar, even at ripoff shack) and went straight into the 75 ohm antenna input of the television. People looked at it and said "wait, you can *do* that?!"

Message #3887154

Sun, 01 Mar 2015 02:31:08 -0000

Agreed on the power supply and the RF modulator (that thing was solid NTSC on many other projects of mine as well)!

Message #3886067

Thu, 26 Feb 2015 16:58:27 -0000
My TI-99 was put to good use as parts which went into all sorts of other projects. It had a surprisingly good power supply which fed various things well into the 1990's. The RF modulator was quite reusable. Various plugs and fittings were cannibalized as well. About the only thing that didn't get re-used was the motherboard.

Message #3884401

Sun, 22 Feb 2015 05:53:18 -0000

Well, if you have an Android phone, here ya go:

http://ericlorimer.com/droid99/

It looks like the website is down presently, or you could just fire up a browser and run one:

https://github.com/Rasmus-M/Js99er

Message #3883973

Sat, 21 Feb 2015 02:57:01 -0000
I had a TI-99 as well but it basically sat in my closet. My uncle gave it to me, but I didn't know how to work it, so it just sat. I love retro computing now and so wish I still had it but I have no idea where it is. I think it was stolen but I really don't know. Sad too, just sat in the box.

Message #3880163

Fri, 13 Feb 2015 15:49:26 -0000

The TI-99 came so close to being a decent machine. I once met one of the engineers (Herb Taylor) and learned all sorts of interesting things about it.

Originally the computer was supposed to use the TMS 9985 processor, which was less expensive than the TMS 9900. But supply and reliability issues caused them to change to the 9900 at the last minute, which led to a lot of the limitations of the machine.

The speech synthesizer module was actually the same chipset at the TI "Speak & Spell" toy.

Message #3874955

Wed, 04 Feb 2015 14:00:43 -0000
Vic-20, C-64, and some Commodore business machine (the PET? I forget). TI-99, which was infamous, I think, for its 'Can't do that error' message instead of 'syntax error'. Apple II and variations. MacIntosh variations. Kaypro II with CP/M. Fun hardware, that. Amiga 500, 2000. TRS-80 Model I, II, and III. I did some assembly with this thing... fun stuff. And of course, some really ancient PC clones, in the days when you had to fiddle with IRQ settings to get things to work well. Oh, right, also the Tandy Color Computer (forget the model number). Remember that thing? It didn't go far. I never had the chance to play with the Atari computer. A lot of people swore by them back in the day, though. Oh, and the C-128 (which I should have included with the other Commodore stuff at the beginning of this post). I played with both the CP/M and C-128 side of the machine, as well as the C-64 side (if I recall). It was a bit like having three machines in one. In college, I had a chance to fool around on a VAX. That's an interesting OS, although I didn't get into the bowels of it much. And those Sun Workstations were also kind of fun, if more generically unix. I think, maybe, that covers everything I've touched from college to my first computer (the TRS-80 III was the first machine I used).

List of computers you have owned or used.

Wed, 04 Feb 2015 06:01:29 -0000

Warning, TLDR and all that: more boring stuff to come (and I hope from you, the reader as well).

Apple II - 4th grade (school owned) - it lived on a cart and was wheeled from room to room in the school back then.

Some sort of teletype in the middle school days (school owned). I was allowed to be around when someone had it print snoopy in ascii. Not impressed at all :-)

Older brother aquires a TS-1000 on closeout at Montgomery Wards for around $30. He gives up on it and gives it to me. Score!
.. - long bit of learning to code / hack it (db9 for joystick), expansion bus projects...   Much fun to be had there. Still have that artifact and the shoe goo carved in to it db9 connector for a joystick port.

Apple II+ / IIe - High School (school owned). Did some interesting programming on them with sprites and basic. Was more fun, but not quite as fun as the TS-1000 as you only had so much time to hack away at them.

Heathkit ET-3400 trainer - High School electronics class (school owned)
http://retro-treasures.blogspot.com/2011/05/heathkit-et-3400-microprocessor-trainer.html

Later, a TI-99/4a - later high school (given by my grandfather). Grandpa had moved on to an IBM PC and gave me his TI-99/4A. Liked that thing for the extra bits that I could not buy (color, sound, etc)... Did some fine video and sound work on that thing. Fun, but slow machine.

An Amstrad PC-20 (8086 Amiga A500 looking thing) - it did run an emulators well and got me through college. An internal 3 1/2 720 and external 5 1/4 floppy. Word processor with spell check on the other disk was quite nice. It played Dead Smurf and Castle Wolfenstein quite well as I remember. Quite a change in my computing world. It became a workhorse, instead of an inspiration to do new stuff. Kinda sucked the life out of me :-(

Mostly boring stuff from there (apart from the can it run Linux purchases) which are now ancient history.

Message #3851565

Wed, 24 Dec 2014 06:43:05 -0000

emulators are fun if you want to bang your head. Of course you missed the release of the raycaster:

http://vimeo.com/66004524

http://csdb.dk/release/?id=118194

Message #3851264

Tue, 23 Dec 2014 13:12:00 -0000
I'm happy to say that I managed to sell my C-64 rig just before it became obsolete. And somehow I timed my exit from the Amiga just as perfectly.

Message #3851193

Tue, 23 Dec 2014 05:03:23 -0000

Not to diss the emulator route (good on you). Fun to dabble in the thought experiment in any case.

Message #3851192

Tue, 23 Dec 2014 05:02:22 -0000

Geepers IG, just dig up the real thing from the attic, slap in TFE:

http://dunkels.com/adam/tfe/

And boot up the original Contiki for the c64 disk image (or 1541 if the rubber band is still tracking ok).

Alternatively, give LUnix a spin with a slip connection to a Linux / whatever provides you a slip connection host:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LUnix

Just wishing I had more powerful ancient hardware in the basement at the current time :-) Would be fun to show the kids.

Message #3848152

Sat, 20 Dec 2014 04:35:16 -0000
Ahhhhh.... I remember my '64! And the screen most often seen.... Welcome to the Jersey Devil Citadel. Your sysop is vince-q. Lobby> Good memories.

Message #3848107

Fri, 19 Dec 2014 23:59:31 -0000
I'm a nerd. I'm logged into Uncensored right now using something resembling a Commodore 64 running Linux. Well, not quite. I downloaded a Commodore 64 font onto my laptop and set the terminal program to run with that font at 40x24 screen dimensions (or was the C-64 40x25? I don't remember). It was totally unusable. 80x24 didn't look right either, because the width to height ratio of the font was designed for 40 columns. So I set it to 80x48 to maintain the correct ratio. Despite the fact that it's four times as many characters on the screen than an actual C-64, it's got the same look. (Except for the colors. There's no way I'm setting my terminal to cyan text on a blue background. I didn't like it 30 years ago either.)

Message #3792707

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 04:46:04 -0000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COKza8FBmF8

Bil again. More fun with Bil.

Message #3792698

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 03:50:45 -0000

Bil Herd on the C116 back in 2011 - interesting design choices made back in the day to compete with Sinclair / Timex:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPD5N43VIsk

Fun to hear from the junior up and coming designers back in the day. Quite frank about his background and apprehension about jumping in at Commodore.

Message #3771946

Sat, 13 Sep 2014 06:28:04 -0000

the_mgmt -

I was not suggesting he does, although he seems to have intimate knowledge of the system. I just always thought of that as some unobtainable system growing up at a time when my friends had the VideoBrain and later the ColeCovison and other seemingly more advanced systems when we had to share the already ancient 2600 console, and later computing on a TS-1000 from Montgomery Wards for the cut rate of $35 when it was on close out.

I am more or less saying I enjoy his resourcefulness, and hopes he continues in his passion to extend an already obsolete system and even come up with a new theme for himself as well as he seems able to grock quite a bit.

I was able to play on teletypes on occasion and check out some fairly good books on the subject of building a computer back in the day, but it was still a rich mans game (or one where you had to know a mentor to build a system). There were resources like Don Lancasters TV Teletype:

http://www.tinaja.com/ebooks/tvtcb.pdf

(Somebody should make a copy of that as Don is not getting any younger, and I don't think his wife will pay the hosting after he is gone - :-) )

Good night all.

Message #3771098

Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:41:07 -0000

Madtronix himself will definitely not rebuild a Vectrex (now). He repairs them and builds gadgets, etc. Maybe some one else might rebuild one, but I think they won't be cheap either.

Message #3769985

Wed, 10 Sep 2014 04:44:13 -0000

Comment to reviewer: Oh, this 3-d hurt my eyes....

Reviewer (Vectrex): Listen carefully to me now... Stop that. 3-d is for real gamers, so don't be a pussy.

Ha. I like him. Quite descriptive, so you have to skip ahead, but a good review none the less.

So, will Madtronix be working on a replacement for the Vectrex console itself next? They seem to sell for quite a bit.

Message #3768260

Mon, 08 Sep 2014 08:52:54 -0000

3D goggles for the Vectrex machine, anyone?

Unboxing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qRESthi5gI

More review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3GOOnlG_fo

I do not know the guy in the video, although he is german. But the guy building those "glasses" is a friend of mine. He is knee deep into this ancient gaming thing, building Atari roms (including DRM protection...) for the guys who are coding the games, etc. This is his homepage: http://www.madtronix.com/en/

Message #3768163

Mon, 08 Sep 2014 03:36:08 -0000

I still like the predecessor (and even play some more recently written games on my phone emulator) - the ZX81 (actually the TS-1000 'Merican version).

Not quite flappy bird, but this is fun:

http://bobs-stuff.co.uk/quack.html

Not quite to the level of the crazy folks that release new Atari 2600 games complete with packaging and rom cartridges, but fun to see what can be done none the less. It does become less of a task when your coding computer does not suffer the same limitations as the original (membrane keyboard), and about 1000x processor and 1000x the memory.

Message #3766449

Fri, 05 Sep 2014 11:23:45 -0000
Funny how the ZX Spectrum ended up being the quintessential historical representation of 8-bit computing.

Message #3765790

Fri, 05 Sep 2014 02:56:32 -0000

Ugh, guess you can't unsee the goatsee.

Message #3762814

Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:58:12 -0000

http://b3ta.com/challenge/zxspectrum/popular/ Images related to the ZX Spectrum, contains heavy doses of british humor and traces of purple dicks.

Message #3712769

Thu, 15 May 2014 20:33:14 -0000
I would totally dig a bluetooth "car phone" accessory.

Message #3707273

Mon, 05 May 2014 18:03:07 -0000
Yeah, nobody makes them like that cell phone Perry Mason would use in his car.

Message #3707231

Mon, 05 May 2014 15:25:09 -0000

Yeah you could go all ninja with a pocket full of smartphones or something??

My eeepc 701 would be deadly -- if it was dipped in molten lead and put in a swingable bag, or say- cellotape a housebrick to it.

:(

They don't make em like they used too.

Message #3707222

Mon, 05 May 2014 14:01:31 -0000
Or you could use one to bludgeon girls who wish to be lawyers.

Message #3707135

Mon, 05 May 2014 09:08:49 -0000

yeahyeahyea!!! \o/

what about a list of: books?   --with ratings!! yeahyeahyeah!!! \o/

Message #3707098

Mon, 05 May 2014 02:50:34 -0000

heh, that or recipies.

Message #3706888

Sat, 03 May 2014 18:15:28 -0000
I went to high school with a girl who wanted to be a (spit) lawyer. She thought computers were stupid and couldn't understand what use people would have for them. She once laughed and said, "What would I use one for,

Message #3706871

Sat, 03 May 2014 16:40:12 -0000

What fun can anyone have using a (whatchatmacallit?) Comm-pew-terr?

Message #3645612

Sun, 26 Jan 2014 03:41:53 -0000
Oh yeah, look at all the 1980's computer nerds (yeah, I was one, but at least I had a better computer) What a shame to have been going through those years during the one decade when being interested in computers was a stigma.

Message #3644850

Fri, 24 Jan 2014 23:07:10 -0000

http://meandmyzxspectrum.tumblr.com

Message #3644452

Fri, 24 Jan 2014 12:34:23 -0000
>1981 perdects that everyone will get their newspaper from a computer someday. It's funny about that. Lots of 20th century pundits predicted that all news and information would eventually flow through a computer, but they failed to envision the "anyone can be a content producer" nature of the Internet. They thought that newspapers would be *produced* the exact same way, and only the means of *delivery* would change. This is similar to the early-1990's mania about how we needed to build an "information superhighway" (which is what Al Gore was really whining about, when a decade later he claimed to have created the Internet). The assumption was that it was going to be a high bandwidth delivery system for top-down produced content -- essentially, 500 channels of the same old crap. Really it was Netscape who made the Internet burst forth into its current form. Suddenly anyone could be published, could be heard, eventually could even produce video for consumption by millions. Oh to have had that kind of capability when we were teenagers making videos for the fun of it! And of course, Big Media has been working as hard as they can to destroy the end-to-end nature of the Internet. Sometimes they succeed, other times they fail. With apologies to Sowell, the price of end-to-end Internet is eternal vigilance.

Message #3644429

Fri, 24 Jan 2014 10:02:15 -0000
> Jan 23 2014 11:06am from zooer @uncnsrd >Modems, wArEz, and ANSI art: Remembering BBS life at 2400bps > >http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/01/modems-warez-and-ansi-art-remembering- bbs-life-at-2400bps/ > A very interesting piece of nostalgia. Thanks for that link!

Message #3644345

Thu, 23 Jan 2014 23:44:30 -0000
Download the current days entire edition of newspaper in just TWO HOURS! 1981 perdects that everyone will get their newspaper from a computer someday.

Message #3643970

Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:06:38 -0000
Modems, wArEz, and ANSI art: Remembering BBS life at 2400bps

Message #3625962

Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:44:18 -0000

Message #3625514

Fri, 27 Dec 2013 17:29:21 -0000
I'm sure you'll eventually (or perhaps can now) find someone on eBay who bought it, had their jollies, and is ready to unload it for a less-than-retail price.

Message #3624572

Fri, 27 Dec 2013 02:46:20 -0000
Normally it's 39.. They had it on sale at Rite Aid.

Message #3624389

Thu, 26 Dec 2013 23:51:14 -0000
I looked for an Atari Flashback, I thought the local Walgreen's had one but it must have sold. I am not sure I would pay $49 for it, maybe $39, but $29. Actually I was getting the "What do you want for Christmas???????"

Re: The 2600 is still a viable gaming machine?

Thu, 26 Dec 2013 18:14:52 -0000

lol, I guess the cartridge adapter has more computing power then the a2600

The 2600 is still a viable gaming machine?

Thu, 26 Dec 2013 06:38:32 -0000

If you have a 2600 system and $65 or so burning a hole in your pocket, you can add an SD adapter cartridge to the Atari 2600 and play a game released on 12/25/2013 (still demo).

Ref (Harmony Cartridge) - up to a 32GB SD card loaded on an Atari 2600 is not bad:
http://harmony.atariage.com/

The game (plays via the Stella Emulator as well):
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/220074-stay-frosty-2-demo-released/

The games that are played on the console are still limited to 32K (bank switched via a 4K window), but it seems like the total "in memory" allotment for at one time play (excluding the 128 bytes you can have on the cartridge itself) - har har. This was posted to the programming room originally to the thread of this date, but I decided to post it where it is more appropriate.

The programming room was discussing the demo scene stuff and saying it was dead. I would guess it would become dead when folks my age become either:

A. Dead (- i.e. not "feeling happy" - Monty Python reference )

or

B. Senile :-)

Message #3624100

Thu, 26 Dec 2013 04:59:10 -0000

Pretty much. The roms differed slightly, but not enough to bother with. The first ZX-81 had 1K where the TS-1000 had a whopping 2K built in (you could even stack the ram chips (bend one pin up and route it to the lower chip select pin and get 4K built in on the TS-1000). Never did make much money as a kid, so the TS-1000 and junk from neighbors working at the power company was where I sourced computing supplies back then.

Message #3623523

Tue, 24 Dec 2013 16:57:57 -0000
I was busy with my C-64 back then, and never really thought much of the ZX-81. I see some of the schematics say TS-1000 on them; are the TS-1000 and ZX-81 the exact same machine with different branding for US/UK ?

Message #3609433

Fri, 06 Dec 2013 08:39:10 -0000

I actually opened the box only once, since I wanted to fool around with it when I find the time to make its internal modem hook up to our network/internal phone system or whatever. But iirc, our version had a slightly larger full qwertz keyboard. Larger than most mobile phone bluetooth keyboards, but smaller than your usual stand alone bluetooth keyboard, eg that from apple. It was black, too. I remember I was planning to connect it to my linux media pc.

Message #3609241

Fri, 06 Dec 2013 05:55:19 -0000

That Metabox looks cool. Did the keyboard really live inside that remote control looking thing?

Message #3609238

Fri, 06 Dec 2013 05:52:28 -0000

http://bitcycle.org/retro/zx81/ula/

Some crazy guy trying to re-make the ULA chip in a ZX-81. Mine are all TS-1000's from Monkey Wards (Montgomery Wards).

Message #3608990

Thu, 05 Dec 2013 20:56:33 -0000
> Dec 4 2013 12:50am from ax25 @uncnsrd >https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaVhNypCUAAXm5F.jpg:large > >So, who here can't say they don't have a wire shelf made up of >either: > >A. Computer stuff. > >B. Computer parts and stuff to make stuff out of in the future :-0 > Up until my retirement and move out here to California, I had ***rooms*** full of just what you describe, for just the reason you mentioned. That happens when you own/run a large ISP. Those were the days...

Message #3608755

Wed, 04 Dec 2013 12:52:05 -0000
>Who am I now: > >http://bitcycle.org/retro/zx81/ula/ZX81_circuit_board.jpg Ok I'll bite ... what was done to that ZX81? The PQFP that was wired-on doesn't have any writing on it. (And yes, I pronounce it properly, "Zed X 81" -- here in the US we tend to pronounce it improperly as "Timex Sinclair 1000")

Message #3608718

Wed, 04 Dec 2013 09:29:06 -0000

*pleads guilty*

The thing I regret the most is that somebody threw away our Met@box when I was sick and in hospital...

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabox Not gaming related, but interesting and rare enough to keep it.

Message #3608685

Wed, 04 Dec 2013 05:50:27 -0000

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaVhNypCUAAXm5F.jpg:large

So, who here can't say they don't have a wire shelf made up of either:

A. Computer stuff.

B. Computer parts and stuff to make stuff out of in the future :-0

Message #3608681

Wed, 04 Dec 2013 05:30:02 -0000

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9574086@N02/sets/72157601627816164/show/

Interesting design bits. Mostly puke, but some bits worth viewing.

Message #3608677

Wed, 04 Dec 2013 04:51:43 -0000

Tue Dec 03 2013 11:42:24 PM EST from ax25 @ Uncensored

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/ZX81_Leiterkarte.jpg

Who am I :-)

Who am I now:

http://bitcycle.org/retro/zx81/ula/ZX81_circuit_board.jpg

Message #3608674

Wed, 04 Dec 2013 04:42:24 -0000

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/ZX81_Leiterkarte.jpg

Who am I :-)

Message #3586330

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:11:01 -0000
> Sounds like either the hardware or software doesn't support >Read16/Write16 SCSI commands, so you're stuck with the 2 TB limitation. 2 TB or 2 GB? heh. There's a "better" SCSI controller for the machine but you can't IPL from it, so I'd have to have both it and the current SCSI controller installed and have the root volume group on the current SCSI controller. A better solution is just to mount /opt and /home (actually I can't even remember right now if it uses /home or /usr/home or what, but whatever) ...over NFS. Probably.

Message #3585148

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 15:58:42 -0000
1964 acustic modem connects to the internet.

Message #3578238

Thu, 31 Oct 2013 17:28:28 -0000
> I tried with a 4 GB disk, which succeeded, except that it showed up as >a ~200 MB drive afterwards. Sounds like either the hardware or software doesn't support Read16/Write16 SCSI commands, so you're stuck with the 2 TB limitation.

Message #3578187

Thu, 31 Oct 2013 10:46:32 -0000

in doubt diskless and root over NFS is the way to go...

and suddenly the noisy boxes are _so_ silent...

Message #3578165

Thu, 31 Oct 2013 07:56:43 -0000
Against all odds I initated this telnet session from my RS/6000.

Message #3578134

Thu, 31 Oct 2013 01:43:03 -0000
At the risk of jinxing it and having it fail, one of my four POWERstation 7012-32H's is currently formatting/certifying a Seagate 2 GB disk. I tried with a 4 GB disk, which succeeded, except that it showed up as a ~200 MB drive afterwards.

Message #3578105

Wed, 30 Oct 2013 20:48:20 -0000
Those are made of silicon and they are to "die" for. haha

Message #3578102

Wed, 30 Oct 2013 20:36:18 -0000
Not to be confused with communication wafers, as I did.

Message #3577854

Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:32:53 -0000

Message #3577524

Wed, 30 Oct 2013 04:27:39 -0000
Do they have working SCSI cards? :-P

Message #3577427

Tue, 29 Oct 2013 17:07:43 -0000
> And I'm the Pope... Sure, why not? As a non-Catholic I have no loyalty to the dude in Rome, and a whole lot more respect for you than I do for him, so let's go with it.

Message #3577426

Tue, 29 Oct 2013 17:05:56 -0000
>http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/11/obituaries/mary-gates-64-helped-her- >son-start-microsoft.html It's pretty well understood that despite the well-funded PR spin story that Gary Kildall blew off IBM and lost his opportunity to sell a CP/M license to IBM, what really happened was that Bill Hitler Gates had the inside track because his mom greased the skids for him.

Message #3576416

Mon, 28 Oct 2013 08:59:26 -0000

well, have some of them rotting in my cellar, but they're broken as well.

Message #3576405

Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:01:07 -0000
Does anyone have any expeirence with ancient IBM RS/6000 machines? I have an original POWER1 that I'm trying to spin up (I don't know why) but it's putting me through unimaginable hell.

Message #3573816

Fri, 25 Oct 2013 16:46:14 -0000
> And I'm the Pope... Fumata Bianca, bitches.

Message #3573441

Fri, 25 Oct 2013 05:25:56 -0000
> Oct 25 2013 12:31am from ax25 @uncnsrd >Bill Gates had some breaks along the way > Yeah. He was never prosecuted or sued for the theft of Harvard Basic.

Message #3573433

Fri, 25 Oct 2013 04:31:46 -0000

Bill Gates had some breaks along the way

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/11/obituaries/mary-gates-64-helped-her-son-start-microsoft.html

It does not hurt to have well placed parents to help you along the way.

Message #3573422

Fri, 25 Oct 2013 03:49:20 -0000
Bill Gates was little more than a fourth-rate thief that snuck out the back door one night in the 1970s with Harvard Basic on punch-cards of the Hollerith variety in a few shoeboxes, reworked it very superficially wherein it reappeared being "licensed" to Tandy/Shadio-Rack as Microsoft Basic Level One for the TRS-80. And from that point the rest is "messed up history." As in - MSDOS really being CP/M with the good stuff stripped out because His Idiotness just could not see the importance of a multi-user operating system. And "WinBlowz" being stolen from so many different sources it boggles the mind (and requires ANCESTRY.COM) to trace the multi-lineage path of larceny. If ***any*** of us did, in our professional and/or amateur relationship to computers and what makes them tick, did anything even ***close*** to the things perpetrated by that unminitigated asshole, we would be in **jail**. And yet Mickey$lop is a publicly traded company... Yeah, life's fair. And I'm the Pope...

Message #3572114

Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:53:57 -0000
Yes, it is. That's one reason I don't really have any problem with guys like Larry Ellison (asshole extrordinaire, and good for him, he's done his job well). I have a problem with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, who were really just pitchmen, painting themselves as if they were visionary technologists, true-blooded geeks who were just so good at it that everyone had to be like them.

Message #3571364

Tue, 22 Oct 2013 14:43:32 -0000

Isn't that what executives/evangelists/CEOs are actually supposed to do?

Message #3571151

Tue, 22 Oct 2013 03:09:14 -0000
Exactly. The point is that Jobs should not be revered as an idol of the computer world; he was really just good at selling stuff he didn't invent.

Message #3568457

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:42:42 -0000

Re: Thoughts on Apple

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:45:15 -0000

The technical genius of early Apple can be summed up in one word:

Woz.

Thoughts on Apple

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 04:21:54 -0000

Steve Jobs - the last interview. Interesting interview. I don't hate him quite as much after seeing that. Still think he is not as complex as some folks makes him out to be, but not as evil. It takes place in 1990 when he was at Next and having to "wing" it. I think his "easy to use paradigm" (given his age and the computer tech at the time), I feel that he miss-judged ease of use with flexibility. I think the Raspberry Pi is less forcing the end user in to a you have to wait for someone to write the application you need, and more of a you can just try out existing bits and glue together something you write to come up with something new. He even mentions the innovations that came out of the home-brew computer club in the way of having some semi-common computer platform and leapfrogging ideas, but he did not see that fact. He made the Apple and Apple II and saw the ecosystem and pooped on it while at Next. even in the interview he wishes the schools would have adopted the Mac sooner. I
Just my retro thoughts from having watched that interview just now.